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Amsdorf

Any Ammo to Avoid with my Benelli M4?

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New owner and just wondering if there is any brand/type of ammo I should avoid using in my M4, based on user's experiences?

 

Thanks.

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[TABLE=class: tborder, width: 100%, align: center]

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[TD=class: alt1, bgcolor: #DDDDDD]Back in the days when shotshells were loaded with black powder, the load in the shell was indicated by the amount of shot in ounces and the amount of black powder in drams.

 

When nitro or smokeless powder came into use, the drams of powder was replaced with "dram equivilent".

 

The higher the dram equivilent, the more powerful the shell is and the harder it kicks.

 

[/TD]

[/TR]

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OK, thanks for explaining the "dram" thing.

 

So, can the M4 Handle the cheapo Walmart Fed .12 guage?

 

I'd like to train with something less expensive than my favorite 00 Buck.

 

Suggestions would be most welcome!

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OK, thanks for explaining the "dram" thing.

 

So, can the M4 Handle the cheapo Walmart Fed .12 guage?

 

I'd like to train with something less expensive than my favorite 00 Buck.

 

Suggestions would be most welcome!

 

Yes.....with a caveat. Sometimes when breaking in a new M4 you might have cycling issues with the cheap stuff. That's not to say it will never cycle it but you may have to run some hotter stuff in it before it will cycle the lighter loads. The bearing surfaces of the carrier group will need to be well lubricated and may need a little "burnishing". Mine will cycle the low dram stuff no problem but I did run a few hundred "hot" rounds that I loaded myself.

 

Just lube it and try it out. Worst thing that can happen is you have a few FTF's beefwhore it gets worked in.

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It wasn't really meant for cheap stuff only the BEST ! ;) unless you want to manually cycle it . Lube the slide and leave it "racked backed EMPTY of course " to loosen the recoil tube , then Break it in with strong 3" buck shot.

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I ran about 25 slugs and 100 shells of stiff 00 buck when I first got mine. My shoulder still hates me for that, but I've never had any trouble cycling shells since, even low dram 7.5 birdshot.

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My shoulder still hates me for that, but I've never had any trouble cycling shells since, even low dram 7.5 birdshot.

;) Dammmm ! i know what you mean my friend tweaked his ACL joint its been almost a year .

 

 

Have a good friend break it in for you and save you the trouble LOL

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Remember to stand behind your gun. Having a poor stance, more often than not, is the cause of failures with the walmart ammo. Not the gun. When I'm shooting skeet my M4 never fails me with that walmart stuff. But when a buddy wants to try the M4 (can't blame him) the gun sometimes will fail to reload and it's the shooters failure to stand behind the gun every time. You need to be solid behind the gun. If your M4 is giving you problems reloading, your stance should be the first thing you look at.

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Just lube it and try it out. Worst thing that can happen is you have a few FTF's beefwhore it gets worked in.

 

Beefwhore?? LMAO that is awesome!!!

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You Bet. A lot of people have a poor stance with a shotgun. They tend to balance the weight of the gun with their body and lean back a bit. The gun is up against their shoulder/arm rather than on their shoulder/chest. So when they fire a lighter load through their semi-auto it's recoil is absorbed by the shooter's body and the bolt doesn't get a chance to go all the way back like it should, causing malfunctions. The Shooter usually has a tendency to blame the gun or ammo for this problem rather than look at shooter error. By placing the butt of the gun firmly and squarely in the pocket of the shoulder near the chest and by leaning into the gun, (nose over toes) with a steady firm stance the entire recoil is absorbed into the action of the gun, pushing the bolt back and giving the gun a chance to cycle properly. I was guilty of this when I first started shooting and I blamed the gun. I lubed it up real good and it kept happening. A bit of research corrected my ways and I haven't had a single malfunction since.

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There needs to be some clarification on this "stand behind your gun" notion.

 

First, the OP is inquiring about the operation of the M4, a gas-direct piston cycling system for operating the bolt mechanism. If the the ammunition being used generates sufficient pressure into the piston system, then how the gun is held is irrelevant as to whether the bolt cycling mechanism will work properly.....that's the beauty of a gas system; point the weapon around a corner, no shoulder mount, and fire away !

 

If the platform under discussion is for example a Benelli M1 / M2 inertia bolt mechanism (i.e. non-gas system) and assume a cartridge sufficient to induce the required velocity as outlined in their respective manuals, then laws of physics actually require some, albeit small amount of rearward movement of the gun in recoil process for theses guns to cycle properly.....that is, if the butt stock is held against a solid wall or the ground, or too many accessories are added to the weight of the gun, no rearward movement of the gun relative to the bolt can occur (that's why it's called an "inertia bolt") which is why such a mechanism can demonstrate cycling "failures" when the gun is held in a shooting rest, or as above, against any other non-moveable object.In this instance, good shooting posture is commendable, but actually too rigid a hold may in itself cause a cycling problem.

 

In a similar fashion to the Benelli inertia bolt systems, direct blow-back semi-auto pistols require a fairly rigid hold to allow the slide to recoil about the "fixed" frame; when the operator "limp wrists", often times a cycling malfunction will occur and the cause is incorrectly attributed to the ammunition and not the incorrect operator hold of the gun. Whereas firing a Desert Eagle or a HK M7P13 (both gas systems), limp-wristing poor technique is irrelevant to the proper cycling of the pistol.

 

There's a reason why the military converted to the gas operated M4 system, this is just one important distinction, and it is not related to standing behind the gun.

 

This is from the M1 / M2 manuals and there is no reason to have similar information in the M4 manual.

 

Screenshot2012-06-29at73201PM.png

Edited by benelliwerkes

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LOL If you say so. Then you tell me why when I'm messing around and firing target loads from the hip I'll get the occasional misfire. And yet when I'm shooting from a correct stance there are zero misfires. I can feel that bolt not go all the way back when the gun fails to completely cycle. That is because the gun is being pushed back along with the bolt, since the shot is weak enough to not give that bolt enough force to cycle back completely when the gun is also jolted back due to nothing being behind it I could call that shooter error. A stronger shot like OO buck or similar will cycle the gun every time no matter how it's held, but there is a line to be drawn where shooter error can cause a malfunction when selecting different, weaker strengths of ammo.

Your post sounded wonderful, but common sense, physics and experience says otherwise. Also, if your statement is true, then why have there been posts on this board in the past from people claiming their M4s won't consistently cycle birdshot or target loads while others chime in and say their exact same M4s will. There are different factors involved here other than the pistons themselves. It's not as cut and dry as your post suggests.

Edited by Super33

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LOL If you say so. Then you tell me why when I'm messing around and firing target loads from the hip I'll get the occasional misfire. And yet when I'm shooting from a correct stance there are zero misfires. I can feel that bolt not go all the way back when the gun fails to completely cycle. That is because the gun is being pushed back along with the bolt, since the shot is weak enough to not give that bolt enough force to cycle back completely when the gun is also jolted back due to nothing being behind it I could call that shooter error. A stronger shot like OO buck or similar will cycle the gun every time no matter how it's held, but there is a line to be drawn where shooter error can cause a malfunction when selecting different, weaker strengths of ammo.

Your post sounded wonderful, but common sense, physics and experience says otherwise. Also, if your statement is true, then why have there been posts on this board in the past from people claiming their M4s won't consistently cycle birdshot or target loads while others chime in and say their exact same M4s will. There are different factors involved here other than the pistons themselves. It's not as cut and dry as your post suggests.

 

I've had what happened to you happen to me. Watched my friend get a misfeed with slugs with a small-bore target rifle stance. Why do some claim an M4 will cycle x and others won't? I always assumed it was the level of break-in, rds through the gun. That happened a bit when mine was very new.

Edited by BigHat

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3 dram equivalent loads, anything that registers in the mid to high teens on the FPS scale.

 

The only thing the gun needs you for is loading and pulling the trigger. If the weapon doesn't cycle it is because you are using weak loads or a maintenance issue, not because you didn't assume "John P. Foggybottom's patented M4 Combat Stance."

 

What a load, it's a gas-operated weapon....will my AK fail to fire because I don't stand behind it? What about my AR-15....can't tell you how many times that thing has failed to fire when I didn't have time to pull it to my shoulder. The mechanism does not need your body weight to function, just stop shooting garbage rounds through it.

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A stronger shot like OO buck or similar will cycle the gun every time no matter how it's held, but there is a line to be drawn where shooter error can cause a malfunction when selecting different, weaker strengths of ammo.

 

There, you said it yourself. I am sorry that you want to make this weapon perform consistently with ammunition it was not designed to shoot effectively. It is a COMBAT shotgun, not an all purpose shotgun. It was designed to cycle high power rounds reliably.

 

Telling benelliwerkes he is wrong because you want the weapon to do something reliably that it was never designed to do is absurd. The OP asked for information about which rounds to avoid with his new shotgun, not a lecture about how if it fails to fire less powerful rounds it is because they are standing incorrectly.

 

COMBAT SHOTGUN, 2 3/4-3" ammunition, 3 Dram Equivalent or Higher for RELIABLE operation of the weapon. I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me that identifies the conversion of Dram to the current FPS notation on ammunition, but I believe if the FPS on the box says 1200+ you're good to go.

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I'm aware of what the gun was designed to shoot. And it shoots those loads reliably. As to what rounds to avoid using? Well, I'm just posting what I know, and I know that with MY M4 and with MY experience the misfiring from MY M4 was due to what I mentioned above. If the OP wants to listen to my input than that's great, if not... that's fine by me too. Like anybody else on this forum I can chime in and say what I want to say. My post was based on my experience with the M4, my post was an explanation that with MY M4 it WILL in fact fire loads that it wasn't intentionally designed to shoot but the gun does have to be held correctly, it's really as simple as that, nothing absurd about it. IMO not a reason to not buy that ammo for some good cheap weekend shooting. Everybody here is entitled to their opinions.

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I'm aware of what the gun was designed to shoot. And it shoots those loads reliably. As to what rounds to avoid using? Well, I'm just posting what I know, and I know that with MY M4 and with MY experience the misfiring from MY M4 was due to what I mentioned above. If the OP wants to listen to my input than that's great, if not... that's fine by me too. Like anybody else on this forum I can chime in and say what I want to say. My post was based on my experience with the M4, my post was an explanation that with MY M4 it WILL in fact fire loads that it wasn't intentionally designed to shoot but the gun does have to be held correctly, it's really as simple as that, nothing absurd about it. IMO not a reason to not buy that ammo for some good cheap weekend shooting. Everybody here is entitled to their opinions.

 

Sure it's absurd, buy the right ammo and the gun works fine, buy the cheap low FPSs stuff and now you have to stand a certain way to make it work reliably...maybe....hopefully.

 

I've got all the newest military manuals on this weapon and I can't find a single diagram or photo of a certain stance to take when firing it. Nothing besides zeroing the weapon and pulling the trigger, now why is that? Could it be that it's really just that simple? That the last thing a Soldier/Marine needs to be worried about with his weapon is if his stance is correct? They're using the green hulled Winchester and Federal buck which is plenty cheap, but it's got the right amount of pressure to cycle the mechanism.

 

If you're new to the weapon, why risk feeling like it might let you down in a crunch? Break it in with the right stuff and familiarize yourself with the operation using rounds it is sure to cycle. You're paying the high price for the M4 because of reliability and ease of use.

 

I am not discounting using cheap stuff if you can make it work, good on ya, but not when you're starting out.

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I appreciate your remarks, and as always there is always an ass clown who feels a need to be a ... ah ... jerk.

 

I experienced exactly what you were talking about when shooting 00 Buck, but I was trying to shoot it from my hip.

 

I had not a single failure, with 00Buck and heavy bird shot when shooting from the shoulder.

 

Which particular ass clown would that be? Because reading through the posts everyone in here wrote to support you and help you figure out what might be best starting out with this weapon. Calling any of us "ass clowns" makes you come off as an ingrate.

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