Butch-M

Tidewater marshes ... mostly brackish water.

Funny how it's hard to part with an old firearm. Many of mine have come down from my great grandfather, grandfather, Dad, and some old timer trusted friends. More sentimental than new Millennium practical. The guns I've gotten rid of went to my brother or son, so it didn't feel like getting rid of them really. The stuff I actually shoot is mostly pretty modern. It's also interesting how your perspective changes over the years ... 5.3lbs DOES look pretty attractive! I started out shooting a 30.06; went to a .300 WinMag for the last 30 years ... now more and more my mind is entertaining going to my Remington 700BDL in 30.06 that has been languishing in the back of the gun chest. Good Luck with your 20ga. Nice problem to have ... making such a choice. LOL

"Foster" type slugs for a smoothbore barrel and any brand 00 buck. You have to try patterning the buckshot to see which brand your gun does best with. And ... you have to test group the various brands of slugs for the same reason. Unfortunately every gun is different, so you have to use trial & error. For smoothbore barrels Federal "Truball" slugs are getting pretty good write ups. [ 03-05-2006, 05:15 AM: Message edited by: Butch-M ]

Nasty ... but nice

Leave it in the bushes alonside the house; she'll never see it ... it's camouflaged right???

Amen ... on the tumbs down for the BOSS system! I've got one on my BAR ... and wish I didn't.

LOL ... Well ... if you forced me to make a choice between long range chuck hunting with my 22-250 (.223 type) .300 WinMag for long range deer ... OR the one-ness you feel with a great shooting shotgun that fits like a glove ... dragonfly fast, unfailingly lethal ... tough as it would be to give up the rifles ... you're right. Gotta love that Benelli.

Gee Tuck ... the guy with the .300 WinMag, and the guy with the 223 were kind of antiseptic in their "shooting solution;" you on the other hand offer an in close and personal answer. First the catapult/trebuchet now a scattergun? What an animal ... LOL Nice BENELLI by the way, but it lacks an ATN night scope.

I kind of like the way they look ... and I'm fairly "traditionalist." Italians are famous for their appealing and functional design talents. Ferrari, Lamborgini, Beretta, Armani, Sophia Loren, etc, etc.

Say ... any of you 22,000,000 illegal criminals, taking our jobs, making a mockery of our laws, promoting a policy of civil disobedience, draining our economy and wrecking our culture ... feel free to chime in ... either a serious perspective or humor will do. And to our Mexican brothers who love and STAY in Mexico, we welcome your two cents. Come to think of it you’re probably laughing every day about the stupid American Gringos, so you should have enough material to keep us laughing to the point of tears. Yeah, I’m worried of offending them ... right. The 22 million illegals, and the patriotic citizens of Mexico, and the Mexican government aren’t particularly concerned about offending us ... are they??? No ... like our own “Baggy Pants” ... they get INDIGNANT that we’re even talking about closing our insanely porous border! As far as Argentina goes ... like we US citizens; those people are PROUD of their country. They stay there and work to make it better ... not crawl into the US in the middle of the night to steal it’s unlimited free social services. Argentina is far more like the United States than Mexico is. No, I’m tired of being “politically correct” and having a gag stuffed in my mouth because the liberals don’t want to “offend” some group or another. Tired of only being able to clandestinely whisper the truth and facts. Every time a person steals across our border ... they are committing a crime, breaking US law ... period. As soon as they take a job ... they ... and their employer (presumably a US citizen) ... are committing MORE crimes. It goes on and on. Like the 55mph speed limit law perpetrated during the gas shortage ... that NOBODY obeyed ... and was rarely enforced, or the 18th Amendment to the Constitution “Prohibition” of alcohol ... that NOBODY obeyed ... the whole situation erodes and breaks down the fundamental structure of our existence as a nation ... OUR LAWS. Our laws did not appear out of thin air, were not handed to Moses by God ... they were formed by “WE THE PEOPLE.” We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. So, without even beginning to address the logistical damage being done to our nation ... they are a pervasive destructive force at the core. I understand what you’re saying ... respect what you’re saying (because you’ve raise a valid point) ... and respect your right to say it ... but I don’t feel it applies in this case. I don’t think the Islamic terrorists, nor the flood of illegals deserve the deference nor the benefits reserved for honest and honorable peoples. Criminals lose that right ... with me anyway. To those honest outfitters who may or may not be affected ... if so ... then they too are a victim of the flood of criminals ... not victims of we who are writing about it on an Internet Forum.

I had/have the same problem with my Browning BAR Safari MKII BOSS in .300 WinMag. Really love the gun, but went through heartaches trying to get it to group nicely. Really wanted it to work, but was never really satisfied. Figured it might be me until I took out my old 22-250 Remington 700 Varmintmaster and could still shoot dimes. Disappointing.

Please ... try to understand the number 22,000,000!!! THAT's MILLION! That's a LOT of fat coyotes!!! Giving your average "Wile E Coyote" the benefit of the doubt ... let's say he finishes off the average Jose in three days. That's 66,000,000 days worth of food??? 66 million divided by 365 days in a year = 180,800 YEARS to clean up the problem ... or if your find 10,000 dogs ... it’s still an 18 year deal. Provided of course that your coyotes don’t mind eating Mexican food seven days a week ... forever. No, NO ... this ain't goin to work. Not unless you can breed coyotes the size of elephants ... and a LOT of them.

Well, your patriotism is admirable ... but there are OTHER logistics problems with your plan. Just how many undertakers do you suppose there are along that border for instance??? No ... you need to do a lot more homework before that plan can be signed off on. And Tucker ... why don't we tow the USS New Jersey, that just happens to be sitting in the Deleware River decommissioned ... and bring it around to the San Diago district. It can replace your primitive and inefficient (although funny) catapult idea with some genuine American firepower. Stuff those nine 16" guns that fire a 2,600lb projectile . Wouldn't it be more psychologically effective if a whole towns worth of friends & relatives came soaring back over the border??? Kicking and flailing until they reached ground zero. There's just something special about even the word "Battleship."

Do you have ANY idea how many shots 22,000,000 is????? 2 cases amounts to what ... 400 bullets??? That only leaves 21,999,600. You'll have to come up with a more workable idea than THAT.

My thought would be fundamentally ... anything that reduces felt recoil is a benefit to good shooting form, so on that basis alone I'd chose the Comfortech model. To some degree you MIGHT also have an advantage because the plastic stock is not "moving around" with changes in heat and humidity. Although I'm not sure how MUCH of an effect that will have on a firearm using a two piece stock.

JUST IN: Bush Defends Outsourcing of Jobs in India 1. President Heads to Pakistan Under Extraordinary Security By DEB RIECHMANN, AP The United States will not give into the protectionists and lose these opportunities," Bush said in a speech at Purana Qila, a historic fort here. "For the sake of workers in both our countries, America will trade with confidence." Bush wrapped up his three-day stay in India with a landmark nuclear deal that is the centerpiece of America's new romance with this 1 billion-strong democracy, the world's largest. Later Friday, he was heading to Pakistan for an overnight visit under extraordinary security to a close anti-terror partner struggling with terrorism problems. Bush said his nation and India will stand together against terrorists. "They target democracies because they think we are weak and they think we can be frightened and retreat," Bush said. "Terrorists have misunderstood our countries. Americans and Indians love our freedom, and we will fight to keep it." An estimated 80 percent of Indians live on less than $2 a day. Yet India's middle class has swelled to more than 300 million, a number larger than the entire U.S. population, and India's exploding economy has created millions of jobs. The country's outsourcing industry alone is expected to bring in $22 billion in revenue this fiscal year, much of that generated by U.S. companies. The president said the United States should see this rapidly growing nation as a land of opportunity instead of a threat. America's best response to globalization is not to erect economic barriers to protect workers, but educate them to make sure they can compete on any stage, Bush said. "In my country, some focus only on one aspect of our trade relations with India --outsourcing," he said. But he also urged India to lift caps on foreign investment, lower tariffs that penalize American agricultural markets and protect its workers and children from abuses. "India has responsibilities too," he said. As the president headed to Pakistan, Bush aides said officials were satisfied adequate security precautions were in place. National security adviser Stephen Hadley acknowledged, though, that "this is not a risk-free undertaking." Bush has promised to raise with President Gen. Pervez Musharraf the need to do more to hunt down al-Qaida members. Osama bin Laden is believed to be hiding along the porous and mountainous border with Afghanistan. And just a day before Bush arrived, a suicide car bomber killed an American diplomat and three others in a strike near the U.S. consulate in the southern port city of Karachi, a hotbed of Islamic militancy hundreds of miles from Islamabad, where the president was staying. He also will talk about the need for additional democratic reforms. 1. But a public show of solidarity for the Pakistani leader, who has survived repeated assassination attempts in part because of his support for the U.S. war on terror, was taking center stage. "I will meet with President Musharraf to discuss Pakistan's vital cooperation in the war on terror and our efforts to foster economic and political development so that we can reduce the appeal of radical Islam," Bush said. "I believe that a prosperous, democratic Pakistan will be a steadfast partner for America, a peaceful neighbor for India and a force for freedom and moderation in the Arab world." Bush told several hundred people from a brightly lit stage that he's been "dazzled" by India. "Our two great democracies are now united by opportunities that can lift our people and by threats than can bring down all our progress," he said. "The United States and India, separated by half the globe, are closer than ever before, and the partnership between our free nations has the power to transform the world." 3/3/2006 09:02:33 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, ... An estimated 80 percent of Indians live on less than $2 a day.??? How many of you think you or your neighbor can compete with THAT figure??? Is “educating” our workers going to compete with 25 cents an hour in China and/or $2 a day in India??? India & China are LOADED with highly educated labor ... and they’re making 25 cents an hour??? Just how stupid does George think we are???? “India's exploding economy has created millions of jobs. The country's outsourcing industry alone is expected to bring in $22 billion in revenue this fiscal year, much of that generated by U.S. companies.” 22 billion??? That’s 22 BILLION that’s being shipped out of the USA economy and Americans household income!!! “Outsourcing” ... that Orwellian newspeak for losing your job. ALSO note: INDIA’s protectionist tariffs, INDIA’s caps on investment and INDIA’s abuse of child labor. Do YOU actually know anybody, have a friend or acquaintance ... gaining anything from “outsourcing???” I don’t.

LOL ...amen. Only problem is ... no other country would put up with the crap we put up with from "baggy pants" in the first place. He'd work or starve. He wouldn't be collecting his welfare check, food stamps, housing allowance, job training, free prenatal health care, free methadone fix, etc, etc, etc, ... and have the unmitigated gall to be *****ing like he was getting screwed out of something we OWED him to boot. The "Baggy Pants" types would be zooming by the Mexicans underground like a woodchuck on crack ... digging tunnels trying to get back into the USA and the good life freebees. Digging like they were "possessed." LOL [ 03-03-2006, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Butch-M ]

I disagree that illegal immigrants produce a lower number of criminals per capita than our general population. Read about all the break-ins, robberies and fear coming from the US citizens living along the border states. Logically ... and historically, crime is usually higher in populations of the poor entering our country. (The Irish and Italian influx last century for example) Take a look at the prison populations ... and who do you see in there, not middle class citizens that were paying their taxes before their incarceration. And ... let’s not start with the grand liberal argument that it’s their “circumstances” that got them arrested. That somehow white middle class Americans are responsible for their plight. Cops don’t go down the street waylaying and shanghaiing poor blacks and Latinos to keep the corrections officers union in work. They may not afford a decent lawyer ... but they did a crime to get there. Crime isn't the real problem anyway. We can deal with crime. Free Enterprise? What about protecting the American way of life? Don’t rich corporations lobby for and obtain “tarriffs” on foreign goods and materials to protect their industries??? We read all the time about product “dumping” by other countries’s industries and the indignant hullabaloo because such and such an industry can’t match the price. Import duties and tarriffs result ... protection. Why shouldn’t the poor slob American worker trying to grind out a living be afforded some protection from floods of illegal immigrant labor? And ... as far as those jobs being shunned by Americans? Who was doing those jobs BEFORE the floodgates along the Mexican border opened??? When’s the last time you saw a kid cutting a lawn for a landscaper or flipping a burger? Try to place an order at a McDee’s drive through ... it’s a clash of languages! Those entry level and summer jobs are GONE to our kids. I was charged $12.00 for a pastrami sandwich at a delicatessen in Tribecca section of NYC a few years back and there were 5 Mexicans behind the counter. Do you think for one second that the deli owner was passing on the exorbitant profit on that sandwich? Every luncheonette and deli we tried in three months as I was working in that neighborhood, was full of Mexican labor! Anyone thinking $15.00 an hour is enough to raise a family on ... hasn’t seen what it costs to live around here. The Fed regulates interest rates doesn’t it? I’ve seen them from 3% all the way up to 19% back in the 1980's. Why shouldn’t we continue doing what we did for a hundred years REGULATE the importation of cheap labor through Ellis Island and SANE immigration laws? If you want America to go the way of Mexico City ... and I mean middle class America too ... just keep it up. If you want American citizens living 6 in a room and “Hot Bunking it” that’s where we’re headed. Not only are the 22,000,000 crushing our “services” they’re destroying the wage base, thereby dragging those Americans who used to scrape out a living in those minimum wage jobs into poverty. Thereby further burdening our “social services.” I ... and most of us ... had two kids and STOPPED, so I could provide them with a good home, quality lifestyle and good education. That Mexican came from a family of TEN. As politicians raise taxes, and insurance companies raise costs, in a spiraling chain reaction to cover the ever increasing weight of keeping people in housing & food & medical care and police protection, and, and, and .... before you know it ... you have as Tucker said “Top Pay” or “Social Handouts.” BUT ... not because of free enterprise. You’ll have CEO’s making 75 million a year and 75 million of us making 7,500 a year. It’s a classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer ... only this time the rich are sucking the money out of the previously safe middle class too. And one more thing ... those anti-union types who used to look down their noses at the American worker and feel superior ... “they’re” now “OUTSOURCING” those middle class white collar jobs to third world countries!! Call for technical assistance to Dell Computer or Verison or your cable company ... odds are you’re talking to somebody in New Deli, INDIA! ... not the local store front and one of your neighbors/peers. Your peer would have been circulating your money in your neighborhood, not India. So, the “world economy” is coming for all of us. Corporations have no national loyalty. I’ve been saying for years that we’re being forced to regress back a hundred years. We will be having two and three generations living under one roof. Grandparents, parents, and adult kids. We will get sick ... and die ... at home ... because to go to the hospital will mean family bankruptcy. You can’t afford insurance, and you certainly can’t afford a hospital stay without it. So ... as the Taliban & fundamentalist Islamics would have us living in caves in a primitive social order without “luxuries” ... if we continue to allow our nation to be overrun by MILLIONS of illegals ... the chain reaction will do more to get us there than the Taliban EVER could have done!

I press the release & cycle each shell through the chamber too.

I fail to see any racism in railing against the people who commit genocide and murder. To me the term "racism" or racist is all to often being applied to anyone disagreeing with the liberals point of view and/or their agenda. God help you if you say anything negative about Israel for instance. Germany, Italy, Mexico, Russia, etc, etc and you're fine; fire away. Run down the USA and you're even embraced ... but Israel or blacks and you're immediately branded a racist or anti-Semite. It doesn't mater how true your words, nor how constructive your intention. I'm not buying into media forced and applied censorship and mind control. There are certain things I like about Israel and certain things I don’t ... same as my ancestral homelands of Germany, Italy and Ireland. I expect to be able to voice an opinion about ALL of them. YOU have a First Amendment RIGHT to speak your mind! AMENDMENT I (http://fact.trib.com/) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "Politically Correct" is just a freedom stealing tool being wielded by those who control the dissemination of information to the masses. Unfortunately, they’ve gone a long way towards making it a crime to “speak” certain words in this country by circumventing “Congress” and the First Amendment through liberal judges and the courts. To “interpret” "fashion" & "mold" the law ... as they try to do with our “RIGHT” to keep and bear arms.” THE LAW IS APPLIED ... NOT ... “INTERPRETED!” So ... if you as an Arminian have a problem with the Turks (or me, or anybody else) ... don’t be ashamed to say so! You just said yourself as to your e-mail ... “at least IT’S HONEST!” Your honest thoughts and feelings. If more people “said what they mean ... and meant what they said” we’d all be a lot better for it. Whether we agree with them, abhor their words, or think they’re as nutty as a fruit cake. Say ... speaking of our liberal media and getting back a little to the original Cheney Hunting Accident theme... here in the NY metropolitan area ... we’re being BOMBARDED with anti-gun and gun control newscasts and newspaper articles ever since Cheney winged Harry. They're now trying to establish "Gun Courts" here in NJ for the specific intention of prosecuting "gun crime." Every channel, every newscast since then! They even aired the Columbine school shooting movie to further their cause. Has the same thing been happening elsewhere?

Great bullet. Great company. I know quite a few guys who swear by them. I saw one of them taken out of a deer and the pedal peeling or mushrooming was "perfect!" Don't be afraid to try a lighter or heavier bullet in Federal if the 180's aren't giving you the groups you're looking for. Just about any bullet coming out of that .300 will down any whitetail or any caribou. So, personally, I'd go for the best accuracy. Good luck with the R1 ... nice choice. I'm jealous. LOL

Okay ... LOL In regards to “invasion” ... did we “invade” Europe during WWII to free France, Belgium, Poland, etc, etc, etc from Hitler??? If a rat comes into my home and bites my kid ... do I wait for him to make repeated trips into my home trying to get him? No ... I seek out the rat’s nest and kill every rat in it! If the rats are in the Mideast ... beware. If you aren’t willing to fight for your freedom ... then your nation will fall to the evil usurpers. The dominant culture will prevail. Unfortunately ... that’s the nature of man. Accept the end to your bloodline. The Jews are a small nation ... insanely outnumbered by people and nations with the specific avowed intention of killing them all. They have found a way to survive through strength. (And our tens of billions in annual aid) Calling a spade a spade ... we hear daily from the liberal media about the unconscionable and horrendous Jewish loses during the holocaust over half a century passed ... but they say NOTHING about the OTHER seven million people murdered by Hitler. Nor do they ever mention Stalin’s MILLIONS murdered. NOR the Arminian genocide. OR African genocides! OR ... Saddam Hussein’s hundreds of thousands in mass graves ... WHY??? Was not the death, the fear, the destroyed families just as appalling??? Anyway ... I’m not so naive as to think the developed world’s insatiable thirst for cheap? oil isn’t intrinsically wound into this Mideast “war.” The Chinese are sucking up the worlds raw materials at an astonishing rate ... largely fueled by Corporate America’s moving operations to China’s boundless supply of talented cheap labor ... Wal-Mart for instance. (The average Chinese wage is 25 CENTS per hour) That drys up a source of Japan’s oil supply because China is keeping theirs for Corporate America’s Chinese factories ... enter the Russians and their stake in the oil revenues. USA is looking to secure our share of the pie. Exxon/Mobil wants your money. Politicians want your vote but have to balance that against the “perks” afforded them ... paying $4.00 to $6.00 a gallon for gasoline isn’t going to your vote. There’s BIG money at stake over there ... and corporations and Capitalism bow to no nation and know no borders, nor offer any loyalty to anyone other than their profits, shareholders, and money. Do you THINK for one second that they care about “displaced” American jobs? Or the unemployment rate? Or a wage that you can live on??? LOL Sooooo ... should Iraq, Afghanistan and via the domino effect other impoverished nations ruled by rich tyrants embrace democracy ... we win.. WE being Exxon/Mobil and those of us driving 7,000lb gas guzzling Silverado pickup trucks getting 10 mpg. Sure we want the Iraqi people to be free ... but it’s far more complex than any philanthropic ideals outlined in OUR Constitution & Bill of Rights. A “LOT” of people have a LOT to gain if we FAIL ... therefor there are far more forces working against us than just the small potato, wacko fools blowing up babies. What’s going on in the Mideast is far more akin or similar to the end of WWII where the USSR was trying to gobble up as much of Europe as they could ... than you know. As far as the French & Germans dealing with riots as a byproduct of embracing cheap labor ... reaping what they’ve sown. Are we not doing the same thing with allowing 22 million undocumented Mexicans into this country??? We’re paying $50,000.00 for two nights in a hospital largely to pay for the millions of illegals living and birthing in emergency rooms throughout the nation. Driving down wages, burdening school systems, AND turning this nation into a two language, two culture country. Historically ... NO two language, two culture nation has ever successfully survived. BUT ... illegals are cheap labor for the republicans and future votes for the Democats. The politicians will never close that border. We reap what we sow. Trust me ... NOBODY is more in favor of ISOLATION-ism than me. I’d put a 30,000 volt fence completely around our border and park M1A2 Abrams tanks every half mile. LOL Our carriers would be patrolling OUR coasts, not in the Mediterranean. And ... woe be to anyone screwing with us or an American citizen. The hundreds of BILLIONS in “aid” we send to the rest of the world??? ENDED!!! I’d feed, cloth, house, and educate every kid in the mining town back roads of Kentucky, Indian Reservations and Harlems throughout the nation with THAT money. There would BE no poverty. There would be no HOMELESS. There would be no lack of education. BUT ... that ain’t the real world of power, politics and profits. We have to work with what we’ve got. It may not be ideal ... but I’d much prefer being here in the USA than anywhere else! Like one guy said “he judges a country by the number of people trying to get in or the number of people trying to flee out” We’ve got a border problem because we’re great. (For now anyway) LOL

Depends on what you intend to hunt, but I'd try all the premium ammunition from different brands. I've had pretty good luck with 165gr Hornady ammo in my bolt action .300. My autoloader .300 likes Federals. Different bullets match up better or worse with the unique vibrations or ocillations of your individual gun barrel as they're fired. All barrels are different. That's why YOUR gun might shoot cloverleafs using Hornadys and the next guys gun shoots 2" groups with the same ammo. Try different weights and different brands. Unfortunately; there's no easy way around the laborious, time consuming and somewhat expensive trial & error testing ... if you want the maximum accuracy from an out of the box gun.

Historically ... the dominant culture prevails ... as it has with the Indians. I have doubts that “they” will actually attack USA again but only because they may fear losing a few more terrorist embracing countries to our anger. They’re NOT stupid ... only want US stupid. But ... where is it that “WE started this???” What horrible transgression justified flying airliners full of innocent people into the countries largest buildings full of more innocent people? I’m no historian but ... the Crusades, Moors, Tripoli to stop the Islamic “pirates” Somalia, Beirut, Munich Olympic Village massacre, recent French riots, Spain’s train, London, Bosnia ... the list goes on and on as well as reaches back centuries. I’ll end my contribution to this thread with two articles that I’ve been sent over the years: not that I'm looking to avoid more discourse ... but because we've "strayed" from Benelli & Cheney quite a distance. LOL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This Letter of Apology" was written by Lieutenant General Chuck Pitman, US Marine Corps, Retired: For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre. I humbly offer my opinion here: I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.). I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11. I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs. I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth. I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media. I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause." I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians. I am sorry that the U.S.A. has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems. I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES). I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered. I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death. I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise." I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets. I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group. I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state. I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah. I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site." I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites. I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc! I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa. America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology. Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans. If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait! You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins. Chuck Pitman Lieutenant General, USMC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I received the following articles on Islam via emails... > > Victor Carvis did a little impromptu investigation into the media-stated > premise that Islam is a religion based upon peace. We hear respected FOX > spokesman Bill O'Reilly repeated that assertion. Is that true? > > Here is what Victor found in their own book of divine worship, the Koran > > Islam: Religion of Peace? > > After hearing so much from the media about Islam being a peaceful religion, > I took it upon myself to actually read some of the Koran and see. The Koran > is the doctrinal guideline for the Muslim, therefore what it says explains > their beliefs. What it says to me is that a peaceful Muslim hasn't read it! > It is one of, if not THE most violence-provoking religion on this earth. This > is not my opinion... read for yourself from the examples I give below. Go > to these websites to see for yourself. > > The Koran > http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/ > http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html > > > Violence is commanded in Sura 9:5 - "So when the sacred months have passed > away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives > and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,..." > > What if you resist Islam? Sura 5:33 - "The punishment of those who wage war > against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only > this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet > should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned..." > [Definitely a tough Christian mission field if you are caught!] > > Command to Al Tawbah: Sura 9:73 - "O Prophet! strive hard against the > unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is > ****, and evil is the destination." > > Terrorists? Sura 8:59-60 - "And let not those who disbelieve think that they > shall come in first; surely they will not escape. And prepare against them > what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the > enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know > (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it > will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly." > > Make peace and be friends with the Christian and the Jew? NOT! Sura 5:51 - > "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; > they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a > friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust > people." [How can a peace treaty ever come when this is commanded to the > Muslim?] > > This book made me sick to read. It was full of hypocrisy. Claimed to be > divine in revelation and free of error [sura 85:21,22], AND in compliance or > agreement with the Bible, it is full of contradictions. > > Sura 7:51 and 10:3 claim 6 days of creation... but Sura 41 > claims 8 days of creation? > > Sura 32-48 disagrees with Genesis 7. > > There are numerous errors concerning Abraham: father's name was NOT Azar as > called in 6:74; he did NOT live in Mecca (14:37); he did NOT sacrifice Ishmael > (37:100-112); and he was NOT thrown into the fire by Nimrod (21:68,69). > > And how about Muhammad. He was not sinless (Sura 40:55); he had 16 wives > and 6' others'. Sura 4:3 forbids more than 4 wives; he never performed a > single miracle (Sura 17:91-95). And what about his love for his people? He > did not die for anyone. There is no personal relationship with him... HE IS > DEAD! > > And to our black Muslim friends, have you been deceived? Check this out in > Sura 3: 106, 107 - "On the day when (some) faces shall turn white and (some) > faces shall turn black; then as to those whose faces turn black: Did you > disbelieve after your believing? Taste therefore the chastisement because > you disbelieved. And as to those whose faces turn white, they shall be in > Allah's mercy; in it they shall-abide." Hey, my friends, the Arabs were > enslaving black Africans long before any Westerners did. Slavery is still > flourishing in the middle east. > > The Koran is an amalgam of Hinduism, Buddhism, Myth and Greek mystery > religions, as well as elements from Judaism and Christianity. Don't be > fooled about what the media says of the basic Islamic faith. It is > considered for the Muslim good strategy to make treaties with their enemies, > then at the most opportune time to run rampant with a 'scorched earth' policy > while the other party is unprepared. Those in power within its leadership > intend to yield 'The Sword of Allah.' > > Please pray for those Muslims who do not understand what their religion and > its leaders intend for the world. It is complete domination by the Islamic > faith. There is NO COMPROMISE... you are either one of them or an infidel > worthy only of extermination and ****ation to ****. Those peaceful Muslims > in the western world and elsewhere are being played for the fool. If they > decide when they find out the truth that this religion is not for them ... > their punishment is DEATH to be carried out by any other believing Muslim, > whether directly commanded or not. To try and leave this faith is suicide in > the eyes of the mainline Muslim. > > Islam: the religion of peace. Yeah, right. Don't believe what I tell you > (and especially not what the media tells you). Do some research and find out > FIRST HAND what you have read here. They not only want you dumb, if you are > not one of them ... they want you dead! http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/ > > --------------------------------- > A Christian Patriot > Hosea 4:6

Well, there surely are demented and/or "evil" people in every country and every religion and it has been so throughout time. That’s one of the things that Liberals don’t want to accept. They seem to “understand” why crimes and atrocities are perpetrated ... and therefore blame everything EXCEPT the perpetrator. Some sort of justification for their behavior, thereby absolving them of guilt. I can accept that a McVeigh is indeed evil, and should be taken out of the gene pool. As should EVERY murderer. Our society did just that ... we tried, convicted and executed him! He’s an aberration in American society though, not the rule. Sure, I get mad at the “government” ... I get mad at my KIDS too ... but I still lovem. In primitive times some pretty heinous religious “ideas” held sway and produced deaths and torture that by today’s enlightened standards we find appalling. (the Spanish Inquisition comes to mind) Religion isn’t my strong suit, but I think that was the result of radical misguided applications applied in times when “life” and human rights were seen through entirely different standards. It certainly wasn’t anything that Jesus Christ advocated. But in this country and in the modern age; Christian based religions ... don't "advocate" exterminating non-believers as the Islamic do. (I’m aware that there are hundreds of equally non-violent religions besides Christianity) Draw a cartoon and they’re murdering innocent children. Mishandle? their Koran ... and they’re rioting and murdering innocents. A Russian school catches on fire and they’re blocking the exits because the females are trying to flee without their heads/faces covered??? Burning to death as a result??? ANY excuse is an excuse to riot, burn, bomb and murder. THAT’S EVIL. Can you imagine ANY other culture behaving like that??? Can you imagine finding a church where you have a cleric preaching the stuff that goes on in some of those Mosques? Jihad isn’t some abstract foreign word my friends ... jihad means YOU and your family ... brother!