StrangerDanger

I've swapped recoil tubes on my M4. My 11703 had the Democrat version of the recoil tube, so I replaced it with a 3 position recoil tube that I received from Numrich Arms. First, notice that the recoil tube will screw in much further than needed. When screwing it in, the face of the recoil tube should be flush with the inside of the receiver. If you screw the recoil tube in too deep, you will not be able to attach the pistol grip portion of the stock since it attaches via the theads next to the large lock nut. If it is seated too deeply, the threads will be too far inward to mate with the pistol grip. Once it is seated flush, install the tail piece of the collapsible stock onto the recoil tube. Collapse the stock completely, and lock it in the closed position. The comb of the stock will act as an index point. You want the comb of the stock to point directly to the middle of the rear sight. As you twist the collapsible stock, you should be able to turn the recoil tube. The lock nut is what retains the recoil tube in the indexed location. If it won't turn by hand, use a 3/4 open ended wrench on the flat spots of the recoil tube. Blue or red locktite should be used to secure the recoil tube to the receiver. Remove the stock and thread the lock nut onto the recoil tube. Be careful that you do not move the recoil tube from the position you determined. You can use a pen or a piece of soap stone to mark the recoil tube/receiver with a witness line. Apply locktite to the locknut as well. Red would be best, blue will work though. Use a large closed wrench to tighten the locknut. I forget the exact size. I believe it is a metric nut, but a standard size will work. I think it is a 26mm or 28mm. I do not have a torque specification. On a 12" wrench, I applied torque with two hands. I didn't use all of my strength though. My concern was that I might accidentally twist the aluminum receiver. I padded a vice, and secured it to the area of the receiver below the rear sight. I kept the recoil tube horizontal, so the receiver was pointed downward in the vice. This made it easier to work on. Install the pistol grip portion of the collapsible stock. Make sure the pistol grip interfaces witth the threadss and it firmly seats against the receiver. Reinstall the collapsible stock's tail section and collapse it completely. Make certain that the comb of the stock still points to the middle of the rear sight housing. Give the locktite at least 24 hours before you plan to shoot it. Hope this helps. Not many have done this job. Luckily, most don't have to.

As the OP stated, the screw had been backing out on its own under recoil. It would be perfectly reasonable for the end user to then think that locktite would be needed in order to secure the stock. I would have done exactly the same thing. I'm glad Mesa is taking care of you. Was the snap ring damaged during the removal? The snap ring was a pretty weak design on Benelli's part to prevent the end cap from backing out. They should have at least added a roll pin to retain the end cap.

A 300 dollar stock for the Mossberg and Remington market wasn't going to fly. The aftermarket should always be an improvement over stock for the product to be received well. If you're forced to weigh pro's and con's, it won't be received well. While you would likely end up in this situation if you locktited the factory stock into place, doing so would be much harder to do. You cannot physically reach the fixed position fastener inside the stock. So you'd have to apply it directly to the recoil tube's stock retainer screw. The question then becomes why? The factory pistol grip cannot unscrew with the trigger group essentially pinning it in its indexed position. However, on the Mesa stock, all it will take is the screw to shoot loose to allow the stock to begin moving on you. So the idea of applying locktite to it sounds reasonable and responsible. That is why I am curious to know if the instructions specifically say not to apply locktite. Without knowing the intricacies of the M4, I would apply blue locktite to the screw as well. To be clear, I'm not knocking the stock. If you need the shorter LOP and plan on using iron sights, it is the only way to go. The collapsible stock's middle position doesn't present a good cheek weld for using thee iron sights.

I do not have an Urbino, but I have handled several of them manny times. Do the instructions tell you not to use locktite on this retention screw? If red locktite was used, it is never coming apart since using heat isn't applicable in the location it is stuck in. You'd melt the stock before you broke the bond. Then you still don't have a good method to secure the stock retainer screw. I'm not a fan of the Urbino attachment method. I felt it was a step backwards in terms of the tool-less design of the M4. The ergonomics need some refinement as well. Hopefully Mesa will consider a 2.0 version that will address the many outlined shortcomings. This doesn't happen to the factory pistol grip or standard stock because the amount of force applied to the interal fixed screw is limited by the stock seating against the receiver. The trigger group then indexes the stock so it cannot unscrew. The collapsible stock doesn't even make use of this attachment point. The pistol grip portion is retained by the threaded portion of the recoil tube at the base of the receiver. The tail of the stock is retained by an internal locking mechanism on the grooves of the recoil tube. Take a look at the factory pistol grip and standard stock's sling attachment. There is a reason that this is not removable. It is also the fixed screw point for the stock. Notice that the sling point is loose when the stock is removed from the weapon. Thiss was Benelli's method for establishing a screw off design inside the plastic stock. Their method eliminattes the possibility of accidently stripping a fasteners position inside a plastic stock. If I was advising Mesa, I'd tell them to copy the ergonomics of the Benelli. Then copy the attachment method. Keeep the tool-lesss design. Surely this will increase price, but it would be worth it. Then offer several different thicknesses for their limb saver butt pad so users can tailor the LOP to their body specifically. Consider looking into making use of the empty space within the buttstock. Be it something like the speed feed stock for additional ammo, or simply a storage area for small parts or cleaning items, it would be an improvement. I'm not certain how useful the cheek riser has been. I imagine it would be like getting stocked in the face with heavy loads.

The trouble is, the stock retention screw is threaded on the outside diameter. This is how it attaches to the recoil tube. So once it has unscrewed from the recoil tube, there isn't anything to stop it from spinning so you can unscrew the screw supplied by Mesa Tactical. Even if you cut the stock open, it would be difficult to remove the screw without damaging the stock retainer. Since you'd need to clamp it in a vice to prevent movement. If this is a case of locktite being used, you would have to heat the screws with a heat gun to break the bond. To reassemble, you're going to need the order of parts inside. Make sure the plunger is in place with the recoil spring seated around its shaft. Then you have to compress the recoil spring. There are some witness holes at the bottom of the recoil tube that you can insert a punch through to help retain the spring. Then screw the new stock retainer screw in. This piece is a PITA because no tool exists to fit the notches at the base. So you're left to halfass it with screw drivers or snap ring pliers. The snap ring then is inserted.

Wow, what a train wreck. Did you use locktite on the screw when installing the Urbino? There is a snap ring sandwiched between the Urbino screw and the recoil tube cap as well. The snap ring is meant to retain the recoil tube cap from unscrewing by itself. Without destroying the stock, I can't see how you'll get the recoil tube cap separated from the Urbino screw. What I would do is I would purchase the retaining cap and a new snap ring from Brownells. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0/sid=916/schematicsdetail/M4 Part number 44 and 45. Another option you could try is you could cry to Mesa Tactical and see if they'd at least swap the stock so you could sell it or whatever. You could try calling Benelli, they might send you the parts for free. For the record, this is the second time I've heard of this happening. The other usser had used locktite on the retention screw.

I'll take it. Please PM me your email to arrange payment. Thanks.

This is exactly what I did. Not because of stripped screws, butt because of proper rail height, weight and actually being in spec. Since the SideArmor rail sits higher than the stock top rail, the inclusion of the sight channel cut is a little more important. Kip's top rail uses the factory fasteners. So this problem isn't present. The only issue is, the top rails have been out of stock for a while. This sucks, because I need another one.

Yep. Contact Unobtainium. Best deal you're going to get.

Swap back to the factory rail and tighten it down. See if it shoots loose. Soak the screws and swap the receiver threads with acetone to clean the threads up. Wait at least 24 hours before shooting it. If it still shoots loose, you're going to have to install some helicoils because the threads are trashed.

That one is a Design Concepts titanium bolt handle. The company is out of business now. Carriercomp's better anyway.

Damn those scammers. I bought a penis enlargement product from them and they mailed me a magnifying glass.

That's all that usually stays in anyway. It isn't meant to be sloshing back and forth inside the baffles. If it is, it will drain back into the barrel when you level the weapon or aim upwards. Kind of sucks. Certainly everyone should follow the guidelines established by the manufacturer though.

Was it one of those relatively lightweight Walmart style safes, or one of those 600 pound empty behemoths?

Careful when you poor water on the barrel when it's really hot. The water will boil off and run down with gravity. So if your hand is below the point of pouring, you're going to get sizzled. I dump water on my AR's as well. A little water won't hurt anything. It's usually beneficial when running a suppressor. Adding water will significantly increase the effectiveness of the suppressor.

Have you experienced the handguards getting hot due to high round count? Back when my M4 was new, and I wanted to beat the crap out of it to make sure it wouldn't break again, I fired 400 rounds through it as fast as I could load it. Took between 12 & 15 minutes if I recall. The barrel was HOT, and would burn you. But it wasn't burning your forearms on a metal shaolin monk style pot, hot. Nor were the handguards melting off. They were probably about 120 degrees. Plus, I'd just douche the barrel if it got real hot during a competition and save the 5 ounce weight penalty.

Pretty clean looking. Why the Surefire M80? I don't see anything mounted.

My mistake, I didn't see that this was M1 specific. I was reading the site from my phone. Design Concepts did make a charging handle for the M1, but I'm afraid they're no longer in business. The Design Concepts handle that I have will rotate if you force it, but it doesn't just freely spin. I don't believe carriercomp has one for the M1, yet.

What about carriercomp? His half inch bolt handle is about 9 grams. My Design Concepts is 8.5 grams. GG&G handle was 24.5 grams.

If you're handy, you could chop the LOP and someone might be interested in it then. The market is pretty saturated after HK unloaded all those collapsible stocks.

PM Returned

$25.00 shipped for the set of five screws and five washers. Payment made via PayPal. Must not be stripped out or chewed up. If you've replaced your top rail with any number of aftermarket options, you probably have these bits rolling around. Converting a SideArmor laden M4 to a carriercomp style. Thanks!

Finally to this: Notice the height difference of the bottom of the LaRue mount on the top rail between the carriercomp and SideArmor rails. carriercomp is the only rail that I am aware of that mimics the factory rail height. I'm not sure about some of the handguard/top rail options from other companies though. Sidearmor and Mesa = Big height difference.