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Webfoot

Hevi-shot

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What makes hevi-shot so lethal?

I have heard people say "speed kills" and I generaly use the fastest steel I can find, 1550 fps this past season ( 3" #2 and BB)

I understand that hevi-shot is more dense than almost everything out there. Does that equal better penetration thus making a cleaner kill?

 

I don't believe anything makes up for good shooting and practice but I'm curious about this stuff.

 

Are there any Stoeger M2000 owners using hevi-shot?

 

P.S.

I'm at work and there is a block on all websites related to hunting/guns and ammo except this one.

 

[ 03-11-2005, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Webfoot ]

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As you stated, hevi-shot is more dense. The molecular density determines how much energy is delivered on the target when the shot impacts.

 

Using a broader analogy, would you rather be hit by a pound of feathers at 1200 fps, or by a pound of brick at 1200 fps?

 

I've been looking for some depleted uranium, so I can pull down ducks at 200 yards, but no one seems to have any for sale. ;)

 

[ 03-11-2005, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: tucker301 ]

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Remingtons website has a good video about their hevi shot. Look in their video library. It holds a tighter pattern at longer distances. It also hits a whole lot harder.

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To add to what tucker said:

 

What you're looking for is down-range energy.

Kinetic energy is defined as (1/2)M*V^2. M is the mass of the projectile and V is the velocity.

 

One pellet of Hevi-shot has more mass than a lead pellet of the same size. So, if one pellet of each is flying at the same speed, the Hevi-shot will have greater energy downrange.

 

Now, when people told you "speed kills," they were right. You'll notice in the equation for kinetic energy that velocity is squared. So, increasing velocity will increase energy better than increasing mass. This is the reason for the "high-speed" steels. Because steel shot has less mass than lead shot, shell companies increased the velocity so that the downrange energy was about the same as standard lead shot.

For example (and I did NOT use any actual masses for this, I'm just throwing out a "for instance"), a #6 lead pellet fired at 1500fps will carry more energy downrange than a #6 Hevi-shot pellet at 1200fps even though the Hevi-shot pellet has more mass.

 

Ultimately, you want to shoot the heaviest, fastest round out there.

 

Then, of course, you'll be dealing with major recoil. As Newton's law says, "every action has an equal and opposite reaction." That is to say, the mass and acceleration of the shot coming out of your barrel is equal to the mass of your gun and how much it accelerates into your shoulder. A heavier gun = less felt recoil.

 

Happy hunting/shooting

-Steve

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Thanks for the info.

 

Does anyone use it for duck/goose hunting? If so what size? Has anyone gone back to using 2 3/4 because of it?

 

Hey Tucker, I've heard of this guy...Osama...He might be able to help you with that uranium your after. While you're at it, show him just how well your Benelli works... :D ;)

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HA!

I'd love to get a crack at him with a load of steel 2's.

I want him to flop around a good bit before he succumbs ;)

 

I used Hevi-shot this year on ducks and saw little improvement over steel, but most of the shots were over the decoys anyway.

I used Tungsten Iron on the geese in late season and they folded like rags.

 

I just patterned for Hevi-Shot 4's for Spring gobblers and I look forward to the opportunity to putting some non-toxic bird on the table!

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Webfoot , I shoot nothing but 2 3/4 in shells in HS for ducks. When the geese are decoying 23/4 in 4's all day long.

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Webfoot,

Whenever I decide I can afford it my favorite duck load is 2 3/4" hevishot in #6 shot. That down range energy, so helpfully explained above, combined with the pattern density of 6's is extremely effective for me. And it's a little cheaper than the same thing in 3".

I hate to hear about people trying out hevishot or any of the other alternatives to steel and doing it with the same shot size they use in steel. They're loosing one of the major benefits of hevishot by shooting 2's and BB's at ducks. A dense pattern that retains it's killing energy.

I got to start my bird hunting back in the lead days and myself and the people I knew just didn't use anything in 3" for ducks and never anything bigger than 4 shot. 2 3/4" 6's were the norm with 4's being for days when you thought you might need longer shots. Even clear down to 7 1/2's when jump shooting. I normally reloaded 5's for a happy medium. 3" 4's and 2's were pretty much reserved for geese and even then many guys just used 2 3/4" for them too. Half of the guys I knew only had a 2 3/4" chamber in their guns anyway. The gun I had at the time had a 3" chamber but I don't think I ever shot a 3" shell in it until steel came along.

When we had to start using steel we had to go up in shot size, especially in the beginning when the loads were so slow. People who started out with steel, which still typically calls for a larger shot size, seem to carry the larger shot size over to hevishot and I think they're missing out. Not to mention spending more for 3" or 3 1/2" shells when it very often isn't necessary.

Dave

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I agree with IdahoDucker...I use 3" #6 hevi shot, however...I think I may brings some #4's this year since I crippled a few on longer shots....

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I cannot speak for all the laws of physics and I will tell you, as a child, we loathed Remington shotgun shells in the duck woods. That having been said, Hevi Shot is well to use a worn out term: awesome.

 

I am of the mind steel is just a terrible option for duck hunting period. You can dress it up however you want but it does not compare to Hevi Shot or Bismuth.

 

When you shoot Hevi Shot and see ducks fall with one round then you understand why it is actually not as expensive to shoot as is three steel shotgun shells per duck.

 

3.5 Hevi Shot? In a word: devastating.

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Without a doubt, hevi-shot is all its made out to be. Last year, Birddog (from this forum) got me thinking about reloading hevi-shot after complaining about 3 1/2" steel's lack-luster performance. After much investigation and several recipes, my dad and I settled on a 3" load containing 1 3/8" oz. of #2 HS at 1525 fps. Our trip to Arkansas for snow geese this past January went down in the books as simply incredible. We knocked the snot out of them. The guide was so impressed (and we've had the same guide for 5 years now) that he practically begged us to get him set-up with the equipment and tools to make that load. This year, we substituted #6 HS in this same recipe for ducks.....all I can say is WOW!

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Webfoot,

There may be more, but I know of two companies that are producing recipe books for HS loads. Ballistic Products and Reloading Specialties. Which you use is a matter of preference. For me, I chose Reloading Specialties because their recipe book was a little more user friendly. They also formulated their loads off of only a few different hull choices, thus reducing the total number of iterations I had to go through. We ended up purchasing new, primed Cheddite hulls for both recipes. You couldn't beat them for the money and after 1 firing, they looked really good. We will be able to get a few more loads out of them before needing to scrap them.

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Caution,

Hevi-shot can and will damage barrels and or choke tubes. When hevi-shot was first brought onto the market it destroyed several consumer firearms and they quickly pulled it off shelves. A company called Environmental was producing it and when they pulled it and stopped production Remington bought the patten and redesigned the wad to release the load further down range and it is also thicker than normal steel or lead shot wads. The Remington wad is made to protect the barrel from the shot and not the shot from the barrel as in lead.

 

For all of you who have shot hevi-shot, have you had a hard time cleaning your barrel? Remington uses small plastic balls about the size of #2 steel shot as a buffer between the hevi-shot load and the crimp of the hull. When this buffer is being pushed through a barrel at sub-sonic speeds they tend to melt and leave a p-nut butter consistency residue that is hard to clean off/out of a barrel.

 

Also, go ahead and cut one open, I know it's like burning money but if you care about your firearm you'll wanna know what you're putting through it. Examine each shot, hardly any of which are the same size and you'll be hard pressed to find 2 that have no deficiencies in them. If you pattern hevi-shot you'll see and amazing pattern, well that's because of the differing shot sizes in the shells. You may have bought #4's but you have some 2's, 5's, and 6's mixed in; but mostly 4's. The small shot acts as a buffer and fills in the voids, making the shooter think he/she has a heck of a pattern and could possibly kill a turkey at say 60 or so yards when in reality the small shot at that distance may not have the velocity, which equals kenetic energy, to kill a turkey.

 

What makes lead hard to work with? When lead shot is fired from a barrel the individual pellets become deformed and are robbed of their aerodynamic abilities, this is why you get "flyers" when pattering lead shot. Hevi-shot is much harder than lead therefore it does not deform as easy that is why you could get scratches, scars, gouges, or even cracked barrels or choke tubes. This is also why lead shot pellets are copper-plated. The copper-plating helps maintain the roundness and aerodynamics of the shot.

 

I have killed many ducks with hevi-shot before I was educated on the material and I used both 2-3/4" and 3". Yes, I was impressed with the performance as I was able to take more passing birds and birds which may have been out of range had I been using steel. However, I personally will not use them until I see a more uniform shot size and better quality control of pellets (less deficiencies). I didn't want to change any minds just wanted to shed some light. I cannot wait to examine and try the new Winchester Extended Range, maybe that will be approved for waterfowl.

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The other day I went out and tested several types of shot including hevi-shot.

 

The heavy shot was the last thing I thought would ahve caused the problem I am experiancing.

 

I tested High velocity slugs, buckshot, and heavy shot. everything went well. accept when I was cleaning it there was a "p-nut buttery" texture to the deposites I was removing.

 

And I am still unable to remove it completely after 3 overnight soakings.

 

My original conclusion was the slugs because I never really used them before. but after reading tsg912's post I beilieve it was the hevi-shot

 

[ 04-14-2005, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: The_Gun_Guy ]

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tsg912,

Thanks for the info. Knew most of it from past reading, but I am sure not everyone on this site is that familiar with HS, so thank you for taking the time.

Wanted to let you know that in our loads that we worked up, we use the buffer material for added cushion, but also utilize a 1/8" felt spacer below the shot, in the wad cup, and also 2x1/8" felt spacers above the shot, below the crimp. This makes for a nice tight package moving down the barrel. Also, I have picked up and examined 20-30 spent wads and none have exihibited any cracking or tearing. All have 'flowered' perfectly, so I believe we are maintaining wad integrity down the barrel.

I too was concerned about damaging my barrel and actually bore-miked it before my January trip and after as well as micro-vu'd the ends of the barrel and choke tube. After 5 boxes of loads, no noticable difference in diameters or marring on the ID of the barrel. That's not to say that 15 boxes from now it won't change, but by then, I will be due another SBE purchase anyway. ;)

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BWNR,

Glad to hear you are having sucess with the HV reloads, you are the first I have heard of that has had success finding a load that works well. By the way what kind of wad are you using? Are you using the Remington filler/buffer between the top felt and the crimp, or other type of filler? I'm sure that top felt allows for more shot because it takes up less hull room than the Remington buffer. I wish you lived closer as I wouldn't mind trying some other non-toxic loads, and it sounds like you are the guy to go to in developing more cost effective non-toxic ammo.

The_Gun_Guy,

I suppose that the p-nut buttery type residue you are experiencing is from that buffer. I struggled with it for a couple days myself and decided that I had removed all that was gonna come out. I'm waiting to see if shooting some high-velocity loads will help remove what is left, but I haven't been fortunate enough to call in a turkey to see.

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tsg912,

I have been buying all the reloading supplies from Bucks Run as they are a distributer for Reloading Specialties, the producer of the components.

 

http://www.reloadingspecialties.com/

 

The wads are a steel wad called the Sam I wad. I will have to check, but I believe we have gone away from the buffer used in the early trials but when we did use it, it was placed with the shot charge of HS before placing the top 2 spacers and then onto the crimp operation.

 

I am far from the "guy to go to" on this subject. There are a ton of people, many from this site, that have forgotten more than I will ever know....just an engineer with a passion for waterfowling.

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I was turkey hunting last weekend, and while I didn't bag a bird, I did shoot my gun twice at a paper target to pattern it at 25 and 40 yards.

 

I was using Remington's 3.5" Hevi-Shot with 1-3/4oz load, #5's. This was all being pushed through a .675" H.S. Strut UnderTaker turkey choke.

 

The pattern was great, and I did a lot of damage to the slab-board that my target was pinned to.

 

HOWEVER, I only fired two shots and when I got home and cleaned my gun, I couldn't believe how much junk was in my barrel from those Hevi-shot loads. Initially looking down the barrel, it didn't look much dirtier than usual, but when I made the first pass with the brass brush dipped in Hoppes, the brush was gunked with black stuff like I had never seen before. It took about three of the normal cleaning procedures I do before I got it clean to a point I was happy with.

 

No doubt Hevi-shot is good stuff, but I don't know if I want to shoot a box of that stuff duck or goose hunting. I hope companies are working on making it cleaner. Maybe there is no hope in that regard...I realize the "gunk" is filler/plastic that protects the barrel from the shot.

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I shot Hevi-shot most of last season. I was very pleased with the results, it's a great design. Most of the credit goes to the physics but for me one major factor is the price. I use better judgment and take better time with each shot simply because it's TWO dollars a shot.

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