Nemesis Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Let me start (as I often do) by saying that I am in love with my Benelli M4. Terrific shotgun! But I am also intrigued by the Saiga 12. Sadly, living in California means I cannot own this (the state feels that merely by owning this shotgun, I would surely go crazy and mow down dozens of innocent people!). So my question is......what do Saiga 12 shooters think of the Saiga? Is its as reliable as the M4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Apparently after extensive conversions and upgrades, they are pretty reliable and fun to shoot. They look cool. I've never shot one, only seen them. More reliable? I highly, highly doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 I wonder about that Duggan. It is based on the AK system--totally reliable, but horrific ergonomics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJgunner Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 shotguns are illegal in cali? or just that type or semi auto? damn i thought NJ was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 no--just box or drum magazine fed shotguns. Or shotguns with certain "evil" features. m4 is ok w/ fixed stock. Saiga 12 not ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai552 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 M4 All the way. If our Military uses it, it's better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey75 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hey guys, check out how a car can be shot to pieces with a Saiga in 2 minutes - www . youtube . com/watch?v=te91g9Yr5g8 That´s a shotgun of future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turkey dog Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 The Saiga 12 sometimes has issues if you top off the mag, the top shell will sometimes deform by the bottom of the bolt. Crude compared to a Benelli but stone cold reliable (at least the Saiga 12 ga versions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novaking Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 M4 All the way. If our Military uses it, it's better. Military weapons are base on lowest bitter. Thats why there isn't a whole lot of M4's is the Military. mossberg 500's:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6.0 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I rank the Saiga 12 right up there with bullpup converted 10/22's. Sure they look neat but after using one you soon find out they are crap. Like some girls the Saiga is good from far, but far from good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I am in the process of working up a quote to build the trunions and barrels for Florida law enforcement on these shotguns. It will be my first in depth analysis of them (Saigas). Having said that, it is safe to say that if FL has given the nod to departmental use and acquisition of them, they must be fairly decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENELEO Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I am in the process of working up a quote to build the trunions and barrels for Florida law enforcement on these shotguns. It will be my first in depth analysis of them (Saigas). Having said that, it is safe to say that if FL has given the nod to departmental use and acquisition of them, they must be fairly decent. If Fla. L/E is looking at them, you can bet the choice is being made on a "Budget" basis. Not because it is a decent weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novaking Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I rank the Saiga 12 right up there with bullpup converted 10/22's. Sure they look neat but after using one you soon find out they are crap. Like some girls the Saiga is good from far, but far from good. I think you mean butterface. Everything thing is good butter face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If Fla. L/E is looking at them, you can bet the choice is being made on a "Budget" basis. Not because it is a decent weapon. Noted! I have yet to look at one up close, and do know they are budget wise. Shame if they are lousy too. LE ought to fare better. My understanding at this point is that the allowance is for LE personel supplying their own arms. Smells like a group buy to me. I'll keep you posted. (Me personally I would just stick with the M4, and doubt I'll wind up a big fan of the Saiga from what little I've heard.... yes you may quote me on that if I ever get brainwashed/converted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6.0 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think you mean butterface. Everything thing is good butter face. Butter Face is a whole different ballgame. You can't tell me you never seen someone from a distance and the closer you got the more you thought what was I thinking. Thus good from far, far from good. Back to the Soviet shotguns keeping american streets safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) If Fla. L/E is looking at them, you can bet the choice is being made on a "Budget" basis. Not because it is a decent weapon. Geneleo I see by your profile that you are a LEO so first, sincere thanks for your service. I'm curious though. Do you own a Saiga 12 or have you fired one? For reference sake I own both a Benelli and a Saiga 12. If we are talking about self defense/combat situations my definition of "a decent" weapon is one that is 100% reliable. Capable of being fired fron ANY position after almost ANY kind of abuse. My plain jane unmodified Saiga meets these requirements. My Benelli, as much as I love it, does not. Like AK's, Saigas are ugly as ****. Their finish is rough and the manufacturing tollerences can be sloppy but in my humble opinion they are a damn fine weapon. If I was a cop on a budget, responsible for buying my own weapon and wanted an auto it's exactly what I would buy. Sorry......rant over Edited January 31, 2009 by rocketman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENELEO Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Geneleo I see by your profile that you are a LEO so first, sincere thanks for your service. I'm curious though. Do you own a Saiga 12 or have you fired one? For reference sake I own both a Benelli and a Saiga 12. If we are talking about self defense/combat situations my definition of "a decent" weapon is one that is 100% reliable. Capable of being fired fron ANY position after almost ANY kind of abuse. My plain jane unmodified Saiga meets these requirements. My Benelli, as much as I love it, does not. Like AK's, Saigas are ugly as ****. Their finish is rough and the manufacturing tollerences can be sloppy but in my humble opinion they are a damn fine weapon. If I was a cop on a budget, responsible for buying my own weapon and wanted an auto it's exactly what I would buy. Sorry......rant over FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU, FOR THE THANKS, we seldom see it. My duty shotgun is a Mossburg 590, it used to be a remington 870, and I have hundreds of rounds through my own Remington 1100, and my Benelli M-3. I had the opportunity to shoot a friends Saiga at the range, it was about like the AK-47 that I'm familiar with from the military days, low on attention to detail as far as finish, and to me, ergonomics. I just don't care for the State, basing ALL CRITERIA for selection of weapons on budget, not performance, reliability or quality, kind of like the military, lowest bidder contract (at least the military has MILSPEC). We traded in our Sigs for Glocks. I like both but I preferred Sig. As for shotguns, I can shoot all of the above mentioned well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rundm Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 the saiga, though not as refined as the m4 is a stone cold reliable weapon. I have both and like them both for diff reasons. I have wanted an m4 for the longest and I think them very well made. The saiga has removable mags for it that make loading a breeze. They also have 20 round drums for when the zombie hoards come. The benelli is an incredibly well built piece of art in my opinion that is capable of great accuracy with an ease of control not found on my saiga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 M4 All the way. If our Military uses it, it's better. Wow that statement is naive at best. Another poster stated lowest bidder. I would say its more like biggest palm greaser......lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-MONEY Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) I was so hyped up by all the crap about this awesome gun the saiga 12" oooohhhhh! Let me tell ya" i ordered one "nib frow a gun range in dallas tx. Wont say which one as not to ruin their good name..... Anyway, my saiga was beautiful! I entered the range with a box of 00 buck shot and really enjoyed almost having my shoulder knocked off due to lack of pistol grip, anyway, very nice weapon however when I pulled back the bolt and engaged thew bolt hold open lever, it literally fell out of place like a poorly constructed toy! After giving jammed and broken shotgun to the in-house gunsmith, he returned the weapon to me completely useless. The saiga 12 never left the gun range/store! So much for greatest weapon of all time crap! Sabotage? Bad luck? Am i the only one feel like this weapon is highly overated or do i need to purchase another? Im seriously considering purchasing an m4. Are they legal? Are they class 3? Anyone? Edited March 15, 2009 by T-MONEY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agm65ccip Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 From what I have seen of them it looks like the only feature I would even consider liking is the detachable magazine... Then again a guy brought one to the range today but didnt shoot much because of the problems he had with it...so I guess its 100% reliable when it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2340 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Military weapons are base on lowest bitter. Well, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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