10Gauge

i'm not trying to ruffle your feathers NK.....i just don't agree (nor does Carlson apparently) that "ALL extended Carlson chokes cyl-xfull can handle steel". I could not find that statement anywhere on their website with respect to benelli chokes (maybe it can be found elsewhere)....they do has a set of 3 Extended Steel shot chokes that are made for....steel shot! hey, i just hate that word "ALL" with respect to shotguns, chokes or loads!!! i'm done, case closed and no hard feelings.

bo, that's a pretty lame example?!?! My benelli's do the same thing my beretta's or browning's do....all three are not capable of doing more than $250 Mossberg with respect to killing game. Maybe the point you are trying to make is the Benelli is capable of shooting more rounds without failure than a Mossberg??? I wonder why Tom Knapp shoots a benelli? maybe they are the only guys willing to pay him what he wants and if Winchester would pay more maybe Tom would jump ship?!? was it this thread or another somebody wrote about the SX3 beating the benelli "speed" record??? maybe Tom's ship has sailed! neway....i like my benelli's, i really like my beretta's and my brownings are borrowed mules! i've never really "loved" a shotgun or rifle or handgun....i've lusted after a few but never "loved" one.

what TMAC & quake said....... my Primo's, BOB, sits on top of a 5 gallon bucket in my reloading room all year long....sometimes i talk to him, he's a very good listener! must be the lead getting to me???

i hope that dream comes true!

welcome crider! Yep, take it to a good gunsmith and have him "smooth" it for you!

that's amazing.....

all's well that ends well.........happy shooting!

maybe all you need to do is hone it like quake did with his?!?! jk!

turk, Barska makes a "halo sight" as do a few others that are less than $50 the truglo Turkey sights would be a bit cheaper but i expect they will be $39-45 depending on where you get them? see link; http://www.truglosights.com/content/products/firearm/turkey/pro_series_magnum.asp BTW - did that shim change help any?

hey, quake....a question about that SSX choke.....truglo's website says this choke has internal ribs? what are you polishing? are you removing the internal ribs, too? http://www.truglosights.com/content/products/firearm/choke_tubes/strut_stopper.asp

NK, I've shot turkey's with 20, 16, 12 & 10....in early spring i like a 20 when their isn't a lot of foliage and when the birds are "working" well and coming in aggressively. As the season wears on or if i'm hunting in thicker cover (greening up) i reach for one of the 12's or the mighty 10....i'm partial to the 10 when i'm after a gobbler that hangs up or is a bit call shy! i actually carry two guns in my Yukon and have switched as i feel the need. two years ago i put a 12 ga barrel on my encore and this was my go to gun for "runnin & gunnin" it is really, really lite....i killed birds with it several times last year in three states!

gc, magnum loads will usually have a greater payload but the real difference in a magnum load vs a field or target load is the powder type and charge. different powders have different burn rates and to increase velocity or to create a magnum load a change in powder is typically what manufactures and reloads do....it isn't simply adding more shot (payload). yes, Federal MagShok Flitecontrol shells will work in a M2....like td said just keep them 3" or 2-3/4"!

quake, i'm familar with Mr. Bansner and his area of expertise at least the last 30 years has been making custom rifles......i also own some of his turkey chokes as well as some designed by Mr. Pittman. A few years ago when I was working a lot of Deer & Turkey Expo's around the country I had a chance to meet both Mark and Preston and talk "Turkey" and turkey chokes. I'm also familar with the Federal Flightcontrol wad but keep in mind this isn't new technology either! These type of wads have been used by handloaders for decades, Federal just launched a "marketing campaign" behind their "new" wad. Federal also claims you don't need a tightly constricted choke for the "Flightcontrol" wads to work.....so why would you use a .643" choke??? I've followed Federals advice when these shells first hit the market and found their flightcontrol shells pattern better with a full choke (.690"-.695") than a .660" or .670" Turkey choke! Give that a try next time you hit the pattern board with those Federal Flightcontrol's.

flhaw, unfortunately the Franchi folks may be correct....MOST of the time a gun that shoots a different POI than the POA it is not the gun but how it fits the shooter! notice i said "MOST" of the time.....i have found italian made shotguns don't fit most americans, they fit "european guys" who are under 5'8", weight 125 pounds soaking wet and have arms about 26" in length! Remington, Winchester & Browning make guns that fit american shooters and this is why so many "average" joes can pick them up and shoot them without much need for adjustment i have owned shotguns in the past, one was a Franchi 620, that could not be adjusted to fit me and when i had a local smith check it out the barrel and choke tubes were misaligned.....Franchi CS told me that was within their "standards of accuracy", too! I traded the 620 for a Benelli M1Super90 and moved on. a halo sight is a very good option for a turkey gun and i know some waterfowlers who are using them too.

i agree with "jaeger" all guns are "proof tested" using a maximum load at maximum pressure to test the barrel. there are also engineering "safety" standards in ALL designs but it isn't a good idea to test those limits on a regular occasion, in my opinion! I believe in the aviation world (mostly military & experiemental) they routinely push the "envelope" or take equipment to the edge of it's design limits and its a good thing they do this. having reloaded rifle, handgun and shotgun ammo for years you quickley learn to look for signs where you pushed the envelope of high pressure. in bolt action rifles, cases swell and extractors fail to extract smoothly, sometimes bolts don't want to open, cases split and primers push back. in handguns & breech loader rifles you see similar case splitting, stick or primers pushing back. in autoloading shotguns (and rifles) excessive pressure can be less visual because the mechanical components are still absorbing the recoil. Shot shells, therefore, don't always show these signs but the internal parts of the gun might. i have personally seen autoloaders (shotguns and rifles) damaged by too much pressure and it typically happens by stressing or cracking the reciever near the stock. Some autoloader engineers even go so far as to add plastic "buffer" material to this area of the receiver to help absorb excessive pressure. as I mentioned to Cali in a previous post, it is highly unlikely he caused any damage shooting 100 rounds of slugs thru a tight choke in his M4. However, it is always a good idea to inspect any gun you suspect has been exposed to excessive pressure or is pushed to the edge of performance! in addition, as I said earlier his 100 rounds of slugs was more than likely no different than firing 200-250 turkey loads in one session.....many that hurts my shoulder just thinking about it!

aside from the reasons give by others extended chokes have a longer "constriction zone" and some add a short parallel section past the "constriction zone" both improve pattern performance. if it wasn't so expensive to make the best barrel would have a constriction zone the full length of the barrel....this was/is done on high end double guns....gradually "choking" a 28" barrel vs putting the constriction 1" from the muzzle makes for a denser pattern (less flyers). That is more or less the reasoning behind longer or extended chokes....other than they look nice and are easier to remove without a tool.

WTF??? slugs can't hurt a smooth bore gun....you do want to use an "open" choke, i personally prefer a cyl or imp cyl when shooting slugs from smooth bore guns, but a modified choke works fine in some guns! i'm not sure what these guys are smoking but people have been shooting slugs from smooth bores longer than they have been shooting rifled barrels!!!

turk, i'm not an expert on the Franch I12 but let's assume they are similar to the benelli SBE or M1 shim kit....do you have 3 plastic shims and 3 steel plates? Maybe your kit does not have the steel plates, only the plastic shims....anyway you want to raise the stock so you need to install the "50" shim. To change shims remove the recoil pad, remove the stock bolt/nut and carefully slide the stock off. Pay attention to the shim that is already installed and place it on with the R or L facing the same direction....it sounds like the Franchi shims can be flipped over for right cast or left cast but since I don't know these guns just make sure you install the 50 facing the same way the 55 is now. Benelli & Beretta made 40 & 45 shims for some guns so if that 50 isn't enough you might want to contact Franchi and ask if the make a 45. If you have the owners manual check it for proper shim changes. When you get that 50 shim installed mount the gun to your shoulder and see if the mid bead forms a figure 8 with the front bead....if it does you should have a 60/40 pattern or about 3" high at 40 yards. I don't think you'll get that much change if you are shooting 3" to 4" low right now with a 55 but we can hope! Last but not least POI should ALWAYS be done from a rest....surely you can drag a lawn chair out there and shoot off the back of it?!?! better than nuttin....you want to repeat this at least 3 to 5 times to make sure it is the gun not you.

thanks for the info mudhen! i hope to test a MadMax2 choke in my SBE2 as soon as we get some decent weather here in ohio.....this tube came from cabela's last week and is non-ported and fit perfectly....part number is MD-11099 and it is a .660"......i selected this choke for 2 reasons, 1.) it has a 1-1/2" long constant constriction which should improve pattern density. 2.) it was CHEAP, less than $20! the boys at Nitro have been testing the MadMax2 alongside a .665" JellyHead, and a Rhino .660" so far the MM2 is getting better results than the Rhino and about the same as the JellyHead.....their test gun is a 21" Remington so i expect tottally different results in my 28" SBE2! i have a SuperMax "ported" choke that patterns great in my 3" Encore....it is an ugly choke with long narrow slots cut in the same direction the shot travels but i think this "grabs" the wad and produces a better pattern. i don't know who makes these chokes for MAD but the quaility is exceptional....SuperMax chokes are about $80 but i don't think they make one for SBE2's yet?!?!

no problem quake! i found it interesting even though the author used a Remington 870 to do his testing in this test he used 2 chokes a .665" for lead and .675" for non-toxic (hevi-shot, etc.) and got very respectable pattern density at 40 yards with many different loads. he also makes a note of the actual barrel bore diameter for both test guns....this is very important info to keep in mind when testing loads, patterns or chokes! Most of us only note the choke diameter in our tests and in 3 of my benelli guns the bore diameter varies from .719" to .726".....even if I use the same .660 choke in all 3 guns I actully have 3 different "constrictions" with the same choke in 3 different guns! this is why every SBE doesn't pattern the same as every SBE even when we use the same choke and same load.

quake...it's a little know fact that highly polished chokes do NOT pattern a well as chokes that have a rough finish! This is why some choke companies do not "polish" their chokes and use porting to help "grab" the wad.....forcing cones are a different story but researchers found rough choke surfaces actualling increased pellet count in patterns! there is a book written decades ago called the "mysteries of shotgun patterns" by oberfell & thompson and in their research a lot of these issues were uncovered. if you can find a copy i recommend getting it and saving yourselves lots of time and money trying to reinvent the wheel....another outstanding book from the mid 1970's in Bob Bristers "Shotgunning - The Art & Science". This is a must read for any waterfowler, turkey hunter of hand loader....it covers chokes and loads in great detail and has tons of pattern info and pics. In fact, it was from this book that I learned about the "mysteries of shotgun patterns" research and both are worth their weight in gold, in my opinion! maybe the guys who designed the SSX tube have read these books, too and made their chokes with groves or a rougher surface on purpose?!?!

Turk, sounds like the first thing we need to do is change stock shims (plastic) to get your POI closer to your POA. Assuming you bought the gun new it should have a set of plastic shims included, your owners manual will explain the proceedure for replacement.....changing cast will move POI left or right too, this is done by changing the steel "washers" that came with the shim kit. second, "about 25 yards"? lets get an accurate range, don't pace it off....measure it or laser range it. 25 yards is a good starting point to get POI adjusted. third, use a large target that you can draw a 30" circle on (after you shoot it!) and don't worry about a "turkey head" target just yet. I use butcher paper that is 40" wide and cut it to 40"x40". Place a dot in the center of the paper, this is what you want to aim at (POA) then shoot at this dot from a rest. I have a 30" cardboard cutout (disc) and I lay this over the pattern and draw my 30" circle....this tells me exactly how much the pattern has shifted from POA, left, right, up or down. For some people they make an X or + thru the 30" circle on the paper target and measure from the dot to the center of the X or + how much the pattern is off....3" left 4" high for example. I do this at least 3 times with the same load from the same box before I make any adjustments to my gun. If you want to get adjustable rifle sights that's fine but I'd make my stock adjustments before I put money into sights. I personally, only use rifle sites if I can't adjust my stock....my "old" Browning Gold 10 had to have sites because it shot nearly 10" to the left! Since my guns are used for other game rifle sights must be removed after turkey season so if I can get by without them I will.....sometimes you gotta use them. Finally, once you get the POI resolved then let's consider other loads....with some gun/choke combo's a lighter load....1-5/8 oz may pattern better than 1-7/8 oz....i'd consider the Double XX magnum instead of "High Velocity", from my experience most "high velocity" loads tend to throw wider patterns than some of the "softer shooting" turkey magums or heavy field loads. Don't bother changing loads until you get the POI taken care of....too many times people try to solve their POI issues with different loads but you'll just end up with less money in your pocket and a sore shoulder!

i don't think i'll see a "new" 16ga autoloader in my lifetime.....unless Remington is still making that 1100 and that gun is so heavy you might as well carry my 10ga! i'll hang on to my "sweetsixteen", old sxs & model 12 and like you dream of an Ultralite or Cordoba 16 bore......"day dreamin"

Turk, let's not give up so quickly.....what is the choke and it's constriction you are using? what load or loads (brand, size of shot, etc) did you pattern? Are you accurately measuring the 40 yard distance....assuming your testing @ 40yds?? how many pellets inside the 30" circle? how many inside the head and neck of the turkey target? give us more info, maybe we can make some suggestions......like the old saying goes, "don't throw the baby out with the bath water"!!

Someone of lesser knowledge than you or I might assume when you said "all Carlson chokes handle steel" to mean ALL Carlson chokes.......the info from Carlson's site clearly states ALL Carlson chokes DO NOT handle steel......that was my point, not shot size, I didn't extend any of your words, I actually corrected your "ALL" comment....."ALL" Carlson Extended Chokes are NOT suitable for steel. Re-read their paragraph on Carlson Turkey Chokes (they are extended, too)....and yes, some people shoot steel for turkey's! Steel has been mandated in some area's just as it has for waterfowl.