10Gauge

either of you PA guys know anything about the Wellsboro area.......i think it is in northern PA?!?! Anyway i have a lead on some land to hunt there and a place to stay but I'm not sure what the turkey population is in that area........your thoughts???

i think this was a 1 hit wonder.......i've tried to pm but no response!?!?! Go figure!

Rusty, more good info, thanks! I'm sure your M2 will be fine with those light loads once she is broken in properly......keep us posted if you get those 7/8 oz shells runnin! did you say you were using Remington STS hulls for these loads?

Greenbay, 1.) yes and no to the .729" question....here's my short version to explain my answer; in ancient shotgun manufacturing days (black powder) gauge was established using the number of lead balls at a specific diameter that would equal 1 pound of lead. For example, 12 lead balls at .729" diameter would equal 1 pound of lead and therefore a 12 ga was to be .729" diameter......10 balls at .775" equal a 10 gauge bore diameter. Enter the modern era shotguns and manufacturers who don't rely on the old black powder "standard" and the modern 12 gauge bore diameter has become a bit blurred based on todays engineering practices. A modern 12 gauge barrel can be anywhere from .719" to .735" in diameter and still be called a 12 gauge! The real question here should be, "is there an industry std?". 2.) Browning makes the Gold and BPS in 10 gauge (i think the BPS is still offered as i write this?). There are some double guns still made in 10bore but mostly higher end SxS's. I have not checked Remington lately to see if they still make the SP10....this was the old Ithaca Mag10 design that Remington took over years ago and you still see the SP10's in duck blinds from time to time, oh yeah here is a link; http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_SP-10.asp http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=010B&cat_id=011&type_id=218 Factory 10 gauge ammo is (for the most part) 3-1/2" and when compared to similar 3-1/2" 12 gauge loads prices can be relatively close. Example, last time I purchased Federal Turkey loads for a 10 they were the same price as the 12 ga 3-1/2" box! Non-Toxic loads can be a bit more expensive depending on the brand....last time I bought Tungstun 10's they were about a $1 or $2 more than a box of 12ga 3-1/2" shells from the same maker. Downside to Factory 10 ga ammo can be finding it....you won't get it at WalMart in Ohio but you can usually find it at Walmart in Arkansas! I've been reloading 10's for several years now and I can make them for just a few cents more than a similar 12ga 3-1/2" load....wads are a bit more expensive for the 10 and i'm using more powder and shot than a 12ga so you can see each shell will be a little more costly. Reloading for the 10 makes this gun "mighty" because many of todays Factory 10ga ammo is loaded to similar pressures, loads and velocity as the 12ga 3-1/2".....this is why cost is close with respect to like factory ammo. Not ALL but some......Federal makes some kick but turkey loads for the 10 that are heavier than the 3-1/2" 12's but the biggest advantage you will see with a 10 over the 12 is patterning....with all things being equal between the 2 gauges the 10 will almost always have a better pattern! I wish Benelli made a 10 gauge but it ain't likely to happen in my lifetime....i'd like to see a 16 too if neone at Benelli is listening?!?!

"tuck" you nailed this one outta the park, baby!!! my only comment on those mag cap mercury recoil reducers is their added weight out toward the muzzle end of the gun is problematic for some shooters......i personally never liked them. i'd also suggest if the "comfort tech" is beating you up too much make sure the gun is fitting you properly....cast and drop wise....or go to lighter loads!

those are just like the ones I use......they are easy to yelp on but for the life of me I can't kee-kee one of those buggers?!?! an old-timer tried to show me how but I never mastered the kee-kee call. isn't that an "o-ring" on that center wingbone call??? no maybe it's a fishing rod eye.....heck you could fish with that one and call turkeys!!! where can I get one???

td, i wish you would just go buy the dang thing and quite asking the same question over and over again!!! ;-) it can be tough making these life altering decisions but we will be here for you man....just pull the trigger, rob the pig and don't look back!!!

I almost forgot......maybe I can afford to hunt MI or WI now, too!?!?! ......or buy another Benelli???

mudhen & tooky seem to have the same "affliction" I have and my wife thought I was the only one!!!! I'll hunt TX, TN, KY, OH for certain this spring and maybe NC, LA and/or GA....still trying to nail those other three states down. It would be much cheaper to buy "butterballs" or "honeysuckles" but not nearly as much fun! I've got a couple of "Newbies" that I will be taking out here in Ohio again this year.....last year I managed to bring two more addicts to the fray.......like tooky I get a real kick outta getting "Newbies" started and love calling for others but when it comes to dropping the hammer on a big tom watch out.......that gets the blood pumping!

nice birds mudhen! "tuck" has the basics covered.....a lightweight gun does (typically) kick harder than a heavy one but he forgot to mention the load is equally important. So being the mudane engineer i am here is..... The "RECOIL" formula: E = 1/2 (Wr / 32) (Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp / 7000 x Wr)squared Where E = recoil Energy in ft. lbs., Wr = Weight of gun in pounds, Wb = Weight of shot+wad in grains, MV = Muzzle Velocity of shot in feet-per-second, Wp = Weight of powder in grains. This formula will tell you just how much energy (recoil) a particular gun with a particular load will have. However, perceived recoil, what the shooter actually feels, is a highly subjective matter. Perceived recoil is influenced by many factors. One of the most important of these is the fit and shape of the gun to the shooter. A good recoil pad can help soften the blow to the shooter's shoulder just as the "Comfort Tech" system claims to reduce recoil. Gas-operated semi-automatic actions reduce apparent recoil by spreading it over a longer period of time. These sorts of things cannot be accounted for in the "formula" but engineers and shooters understand these variables exist. Also, keep in mind that there are dozens of loads for any given shot charge weight in any gauge that will produce the same velocity, but a different amount of recoil. The bottomline for me if I'm shooting a gun and the recoil feels excessive the first thing to check is fit.....unlike Mudhen's experience my Browning Gold's feel much softer with the same turkey load that I shoot in my Benelli and I equate that to the Browning being heavier, fitting me better, and having a gas operating system. Once my Benelli's had the proper drop & cast set to fit me the "percieved recoil" was less. Perhaps "fit" is why mudhen has more perceived recoil with his Browning vs the Benelli.....his Benelli "fits" him better??? "tuck" makes another valid comment....shooting live game seems to reduce "percieved recoil" and many shooters have witnessed this over the years and I believe it is due to the adrenalin we have at the moment we squeeze the trigger?!?! that's my nickles worth........

1.) without knowing the NYS law specifically this is difficult to answer.....here in ohio when it comes to deer or waterfowl season one must have a 3 shot only shotgun so the addition of a "plug" makes the gun with over 3 shots legal. You really should verify this with your local Sherrif's department, not this forum. Magazine "plugs" can be easily made from plastic pipe, wooden towel or aluminum and cut to fit as needed. You can also find them on e-bay if you do some searhing. 2.) there was a guy on here called "socomguy" who was making custom mag tubes for the M4's perhaps you can search those threads and see if he can help you with an M3 mag?!?!? good luck!

ID, I have a fully rifled SBE and it is amazing with respect to accuracy. under 2" groups @ 100 yds.....my $250 TC Encore barrel is a little more accurate when both guns are shooting 3" slugs! In addition, I have a Beretta Rifled Choke tube (factory choke) and have used in on both my SBE, M1 and smooth bore Beretta guns with extremely good results. +3" groups (3 shots) are common at 75 yards but it's not near the accuracy of a rifled barrel....i have not tested beyond 75 yards with this setup. A rifled choke is better than a smooth bore beyond 50 yards......i still shoot my smooth bore slug guns because very few of my shots on deer here in Ohio are beyond 40 yards......if your going to be shooting beyond 50 yards on a regular basis a rifled choke is super.....if your shooting beyond 100 yards I'd opt for the fully rifled barrel.....that's my 2 cents!

Lame, i shoot a .575 Rhino from my M1 (20bore) and she patterns extremely well......like "tuck" said .570 is pretty tight! However, I'm sure somebody makes a tighter choke if you feel the need to go tighter.

luv you too.........

I have a couple of turkey wing bone calls but they are not used as striker's......they sound very good but are tough to master! Since a goose or turkey wing bone is hollow one would think they might make for very good striker prospects.....just wonder if they would require some type of synthetic or natural tip?!?! Recently I picked up a Knight & Hale "Yella Hammer" that has a different "tip" material than the striker and it sound pretty sweet, even with my lousy calling technique!

No kinder words have ever been typed by "tuck"!!!

true, true, true!

"tuck" this "o-ring" part is not in the "Gas System".....you left out the important items in your drawing that are directly behing item #65......these are the "Gas System" parts! Item #54 is mounted inside the forend........just like my Benelli SBS & M1's have "o-rings" in their forends?!?! Amazing.... No offense friend but you should stick to computers......maybe you know something about those!?!?!

my first turkey gun wore a camo "sock" to hide the high luster blue and shiney wood..... my next turkey gun was a flat black shotgun with synthetic stock & forend..... later i covered the stock, reciever and forend with "vinyl camo" leaving the flat black barrel..... one day while painting my duck boat i decided to paint an old shotgun and it turned out decent....... today most of my turkey & waterfowl guns have factory camo or "dipped" finishes!!! In the end everyone has to do what is most economical or what they have time for! IMHO, all one really needs for a turkey or waterfowl rig is to eliminate the "shine" and a "tactical" black gun does this pretty well....so does a camo "sock" and it's cheaper than dirt!!!

lindy, don't get hung up on this "o-ring" nonsense......I shoot ALL kinds of auto's from Browning A5's to Benelli SBE's and if the Winchester X guns are truely built like the Browning Golds there isn't an issue with the gas systems on these shotguns. Nor would I call them "o-rings", the Golds are steel or some type of alloy similar to the old A5's......when someone says "o-ring" I think of an elastomer, maybe that's my engineering background showing through?!?! if you plan to shoot 2-3/4" nearly as much as 3" I'd go with the M2 and never look back......if you plan to shoot 3-1/2" (alot or nearly always) get the SBE2. My goto gun for geese is a Browning 10 gauge it will outperform ANY 3-1/2" 12 gauge on the planet but few guys are willing to buy a "specialty" gun like the "mighty 10" because it is more expensive to shoot. If you reload a 10 is by far the best waterfowl gun I've ever taken to the blind. For turkey's I seldom shoot more than 3" in my 12's because 3" shells tend to pattern better than 3-1/2" shells in my guns.....sometimes I turkey hunt with the 10 but she's a beast to carry (11+lbs) if I'm "runnin & gunnin" a lighter gun is a dream.......i like my TC Encore for turks!!!

I like the old saying...."it's better to be lucky than good!" many days this applies to turkey hunting.....last spring on opening day I went to one of my favorite locations that I had scouted a few times in the preseason but there were two guys already there....went to "plan b" and two other trucks were there....went to "plan c" and a buddy of mine was there so it was down to my last place "plan d" and at this point it is well past fly down so I'm just screwing around thinkin the day is a bust! Walked in about a 1/4 mile out a rigde toward a power line and struck a yelp on the slate......nuttin, went nearly another 1/8 mile and i'm almost to the powerline and struck the slate again....this time 4 or 5 toms gobbled and they sounded like they were all together across the powerline! I took off running toward them, dropped down in the creek bottom where they sounded like they were....maybe a 1000 yd trek further and I got nervous thinking I had to be getting close...struck the slate one more time and they erupt again but one is close, less than 50 yards and in full strut and now headed my way! I'm on my knees in a muddy deer trail watching him make a beeline for my position...he goes behind a tree and i drop to prone and have my gun ready to fire when he gets closer....he's now in the creek bottom and I can't see him but can hear him spitting and drumming all the way....obviously no time for decoys and who needs one??? he pops up outta the creek at less than 10 yards but there is a large log between us....all i can see is the top of his fan as he struts back and forth behind the log for what seems an eternity....i reach over with my right hand and find the mud covered slate with one light stroke of the striker i purr so softly it sounds like a mouse and the big boy darts to the end of the log and peeks around for his lover! The last thing he saw was an orange flash as the copper plated lead rolled him back behind the log....he was dead at 6 yards and didn't have time to do much flopping either!!! From the time I parked until I pulled the trigger less than 30 minutes had passed......my buddy who was about a half mile up the road heard my shot but had never heard a gobble all morning! Neither of us had scouted this area but had seen birds there during deer season.......i'd rather be lucky than good!

I just got one on ebay for $79.99 including shipping.......my understanding is they are only going to be available for Military & Law Enforcement, that's what the Benelli dealer told me when I tried to order one?!?! You might look at some aftermarket tubes some are pretty good from what I hear.....good luck!

BART, you got me laughing on that one......LMAO actually! I've said this for years when my buddies tell me how easy turkey hunting looks on TV and then they come home crying about how tough it was to get that hung up gobbler to move! "Quake" is dead on regarding the filming of hunting shows! I got the chance to be in on a waterfowl hunt that was being video taped by one of the "big" boys in the hunting show market and the host was a former NFL footballer (not Czonka, either).....this was 10 years ago (1998) and I could not believe the footage I saw after all the editing was done!!! We killed 2 dux in 3 long days of hunting, weather was hot (70's) in stutgart that December, skys blue and birds flying high (10,000 feet!). The camera guys filmed everyone with close up several times each day taking shots at birds that were NOT there, and used this footage along with the 2 dux falling from the sky and extreme close ups (fancy camera work) of these 1/2 mile away flocks of birds to make the "hunt of a life time"!!! If I had not been there I would have thought these boys were flat slaying some ducks but the reality was Mosquitos nearly killed us and it was the worst waterfowl hunting in my life....it aired on ESPN several times prior to the next waterfowl season and nobody was the wiser! Since then I don't believe anything I see in a hunting video!

Thanks SH.....I should have that Limbsaver anyday now and it is going to be in the 40's here the next couple of days so maybe I can get out there and bust some clays?!?!

took, The factory Beretta/Benelli "MC" (Mobil Chokes) will be a lower cost alternative if your looking for an upland game tube.....to add to "quake's" comment, I use a Rhino pipe in my M1 Super 90 that is .575" and it patterns extremely well, your monty will accept the same tube if it came from the factory with choke tubes!