Duggan

So I find it kind of funny/interesting that after 3+ years now of using my m4, I've regressed I guess to a much simpler configuration than I once used. This is a picture of my m4 2 years ago, to the date actually ... 9/4/06, how funny Image Hosting and this is my m4 as I currently use it ... no sling, no collapsible stock, no eotech or larue mount, and a smaller charging handle. It's sitting on the same computer chair too, 2 years later, should you be fooled into thinking I posted the same pic each time. No matter how you set it up, it's one **** of a shotgun.

During this shoot, my GG&G charging handle got severly bent somehow. This has happened before and I have reported on the incident, but this was much worse than it has ever been. The metal in the GG&G charging handle just isn't rigid enough for this application ... which sucks, because I really like how big and textured the handle is. When I got home I ordered the Progressive Machine & Tool titanium charging handle, and it arrived today. I thought it would be the same size at the GG&G, as I thought they looked the same in some pictures I took, however upon inspection and comparison it is clear that the PMT handle is much smaller. PMT on left, stock in middle, GG&G on right (you can kind of see the bend in the metal, even though I straighted it back out with a vice) I thought this would be an issue, but when I popped it into my gun it felt just right ... almost better than the GG&G. It's a huge step up from the stock charging handle IMO in terms of ergonomics ... and the part of the handle that actually goes into the bolt carrier group is identical to the stock charging handle, unlike the GG&G which didn't have the fat stabilizing part, nor the 3 grooves that prevent the handle from spinning. To be honest I forgot all about the stock handle not spinning, as over the past 2 years I've gotten used to having a spinning charging handle ... but to have it not spin is nifty. I have yet to fire with this charging handle, but from playing with it in my room it seems that it is the ideal mix of size ergonomics and design ... much easier on the fingers then the stock handle, quicker to grab and yank without getting your pointer stuck in the breech. Being titanium coated with diamondblack, I have high expectations for this handle.

In celebration (or perhaps dismay) of school starting again, a friend and I took our m4s and fired close to 1000 rounds through them. In addition to skeet shooting, slugs at the rifle range and buckshot dumping while moving, we did tests comparing the fixed and collapsible stocks, as we are both considering selling ours while the market is good. http://www.supload.com/vid/stocktest/355080957/avi/ You can't reallllly see it in the video, but we both agree that the solid stock is much more comfortable and practical to shoot with. It gives a much faster and more consistent cheekweld, and when I raise the shotgun to my face I find that the irons are in just the right position, while with the collapsible I sometimes had to make small adjustments after the initial raise. So I think I've had my fun with the collapsible stock, it has it's uses and it certainly looks cool, but if I could sell for even 750+ I'd do it in a heartbeat to someone else who wants to experience it. I'll miss it sometimes, but I can certainly live without it. I also did a test of one handed, fully collapsed stock, zero shoulder support limp wristed shooting, attempting to make the m4 screw up ... I finally succeeded with #8 shot. Buckshot and #4 shot fed and functioned fine in my limited testing of this. http://www.supload.com/vid/8jams/119129403/avi/ (notice the 9 shots I fire ) After the second shot, the third shell would eject onto the lifter, but it would never get lifted.

I never look at the R1 forums, so this is the first I've seen of this thread ... but wow, incredibly inspiring stuff. I wish I had a place in an area like this and had the time and money to do stuff like this ... as do many other people I'm sure. Keep on doing what you clearly love, you've earned it.

http://s3.supload.com/free/Manufacture_Dates.jpg/view/ MARK YEAR I or 1 1945 II or 2 1946 III or 3 1947 IV or 4 1948 V or 5 1949 VI or 6 1950 VII or 7 1951 VIII or 8 1952 IX or 9 1953 X 1954 XI 1955 XII 1956 XIII 1957 XIV 1958 XV 1959 XVI 1960 XVII 1961 XVIII 1962 XIX 1963 XX 1964 Date of Manufacture XXI 1965 XXII 1966 XXIII 1967 XXIV 1968 XXV 1969 XXVI 1970 XXVII or XX7 1971 XXIII or XX8 1972 XXIX or XX9 1973 XXX 1974 AA 1975 AB 1976 AC 1977 AD 1978 AE 1979 AF 1980 AH 1981 AI 1982 AL 1983 AM 1984 AN 1985 AP 1986 AS 1987 AT 1988 AU 1989 AZ 1990 BA 1991 BB 1992 BC 1993 BD 1994 BF 1995 BH 1996 BI 1997 BL 1998 BM 1999 BN 2000 BP 2001 BS 2002 Date of Manufacture BT 2003 BU 2004 BZ 2005 CA 2006 CB 2007 CC 2008

Congrads. Now run it hard!

Indeed. If you can't handle 2 3/4 game loads, it's you that is the problem, not the gun. So learn to love getting punched in the face, like unobtanium here.

I've only seen a few hunting shows ever ... and it was bow hunting, which bores me to tears to think about doing, let alone watch someone else do.

You do not NEED an additional mount to use an eotech with an m4. The reason people use mounts is 1) - to make the optic higher (not needed on benellis unless you're using a collapsible stock) 2) - for the throw lever that lets you take it on and off quickly, while maintaining zero (not really an issue with shotguns) I use an eotech on a larue mount with some of my rifles, but it's not needed/wanted on a shotgun. http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=269 http://www.eotech-inc.com/products.php?id=1 That shows your full range of options. Apparently l3 is not even making 511s anymore, as I don't see them listed on their site, but you can still find them all over the place. The 512 is the plane jane AA battery non NV version. Before you buy an eotech though, check out this: http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=149 http://www.laruetactical.com/pics/LT66XMount/T1_Profiles_copy.jpg The aimpoint t1 in the short mount may be the current best option. I'm looking to get one shortly, I'll report back when I do.

Ok. 1) - You only need a mount if you're going to be shooting a stock in the middle or fully collapsed position. The point on the mount is to raise the optic ... if you have the standard stock or generally shoot with the collapsible stock all the way out, if you use a mount the optic will be too high to use and still maintain a good cheekweld 2) - If it applies, larue makes the best eotech mount (along with every other mount) 3) - Don't get a night vision compatible eotech. You won't be using NVG's with your m4, and the NV versions eat batteries even faster than normal eotechs. I'd reccomend a 511 ... N batteries are easy to come by now, and the overall package is smaller and lighter. 4) - The reason for an eotech on a shotgun is the same reason you use an eotech with any gun ... it's about fast target aquistion, not how accurately you can shoot with one from a bench.

I mean no offense, but I bought and sold 5 oem full length tubes back when numrich decided to liquidate their lot of them. The finish on the aftermarket tubes I've dealt with is hands down better than the factory tubes. So I'm a bit mystified as you why you've never considered an aftermarket tube.

From what I remember, the complaints went something like this: 1) - Poor venting, got hot very easily or something 2) - The open rail apparently doesn't stop the hot gas from flying in your face and hands. 3) - The screw issue, and the new barrel profile doesn't fit the BT rail right 4) - overall poor fit/finish I've never used one, so I can't say anything firsthand about them. I've just talked to a few people who have had them, and that is what I remember them saying IIRC. As far a rail options, it's pretty limited. Surefire, B&T, and mesa tactical if they ever decide to complete their vaporware rail. I'm not holding my breath.

Yea, who would ever be so foolish as to be interested in those readily available, superior finish, less expensive after market full length tubes? Clearly they'd be a fool. :\

There are lots of problems with the B&T rails in addition to this. That's why you don't see many of them.

That's the point. Vague, confusing, unenforceable laws are very good at keeping the majority of people in line, while allowing the minority to do what they want to an extent. If you're really caught up on the technicalities ... I don't know what to tell you. You won't find a clear answer. You're not supposed to. Since when have gun laws had to make sense to get put into effect? On one hand imported shotguns can't have over a certain number of random features ... but it takes a certain number of imported parts to make it an imported gun ... so people have been replacing imported parts with US made parts in hopes of dropping under 10 imported parts and thus making 922r null and void. On the other hand, the benelli is obviously made up of more than the 11 parts listed in the ATF letter, and the ATF could "realize" and revise their supposed list at any time, making the people who have replaced stock imported parts with US made parts possessors of now illegal weapons. Plus there are local laws to comply with, and the "sporting purposes" clause. My opinion: Don't fret over it. Enjoy your gun. Take it or leave it.

I see now the main thing I wanted you to see, m4madness' letter from the atf a few years ago is no longer hosted, so let me link it here: http://s3.supload.com/free/412235.jpg/view/ http://s3.supload.com/free/412237.jpg/view/ Long story short: The theory is that if you make the gun have less than 10 imported parts, 922r no longer applies, and everyone lives happily ever after. Benelli stopped selling full length tubes/collapsible stock for fear of the ATF, but the ATF has done nothing beyond stating that these modifications would technically be illegal under certain laws. Long story even shorter: 922r is a crock, and there's no reason to worry about vague "sporting purposes" clauses written by people who have no clue about guns, or to worry that the ATF is going to break down your door and arrest you for having a stock that lets you adjust your length of pull. Long story the shortest: The ATF, to my knowledge, does not prosecute 922r offenses. The accessories are available and easy to install. You're more likely to get sued by the RIAA for mp3 downloads or charged by the DMV for using a catless exhaust than you are likely to be hassled for not being in compliance with 922r. YMMV Have fun.

This topic has been researched and debated to death on these boards. http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/search.php?searchid=360931 Research away.

Hmm, this would be a change in benelli's policy then. They USED to ship all the chokes out for free if you were missing them. This is the first I've heard of them going back on that policy.

This forum is littered with hundreds of pictures of m4's with full length tubes and extensions. Search a bit and you will find them. The full length tube is cleaner looking and just better ... there's no reason not to get one if you're going for +2 rounds.

Welcome to the board.

True enough. I try not to think about how much my stock is worth, because the desire to sell it and get another gun is overpowering. It's not as comfortable or solid as the standard stock ... it just collapses and looks cool. Is it worth $1000? I'm not sure.

Probably around 10k. It's really impossible to tell ... there have been days I've shot 300+ value pack #9 rounds plus random slugs/buckshot added in, and then there are monthes when I won't even touch my shotgun. But I'm pretty sure I'm pushing near 10k, if not there already. I shot 300 or so a few days ago at a friends birthday bonfire.

Get a full length tube, even if you don't want/can't afford one now. If you buy a +2, you will just end up wanting a full length tube later on, and you'll end up spending more money. Socomguy makes/sells full length tubes, he has a thread here. http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16367 As for a rod, it really doesn't matter on a shotgun. There's no rifling, thus no real need to be super anal about scraping off the chromezzzz or cleaning every last bit of residue out. I only clean my m4 when I'm bored ... it doesn't need it. But if you want a nice rod to go with your shiney new gun, a dewey or boretech is a solid choice. Most of us just use a boresnake for quick cleaning, or whatever rod is around for more thorough cleaning should it ever be needed.

It's obviously not set up for clays sight wise or barrel wise, but it can be done. I've shot clays with my stock fully collapsed using an eotech ... just because I can. I have probably 1000 rounds through my m4 on clays ... and if you miss, you still have 8 more tries If you want a full time clay gun though, there are much more appropriate choices. Ghost rings don't really work with clay tracking. It's fun to try though.

I didn't use anything ... it's only come loose once when cleaning, never when shooting. It's not really needed imo ... YMMV