twowheelhooligan

Estate HV slugs

Here is the Fed VitalShok HIGH VELOCITY The fifth shot is by itself in the wood, hence the reason I circled the groups.

LOW RECOIL Fed Vital Shok (1300fps)

Here is the Winchester Supreme High Velocity

Okay, so for this test, my Benelli M4, factory 18" barrel fitted with Carlson's "tactical" breech choke affixed. Temp was 70-degrees, cloudy and 1/2 value wind of 5mph.(this is the joke part, because I don't think it matters that much for THIS demonstration!!) Now, I don't claim to be, not paid to be, nor is the weapon intended to be a sniper grade piece. I'm sure others may get better groups. I bagged my shotty, and all groups are @ 50yds. I maintained the same POA for all shots, not really caring WHERE they grouped, but *HOW* they grouped, or in some cases "grouped." Your own testing and verification may be needed. Just thought I'd help the curious. All slugs were 2.75" shells. I know there are a bunch more slugs out there, I just had these that I bought locally. As I get ambition, $, time and cooperative weather, I may continue with a wider variety of slugs. Thought this would be a start at least. Below is the Winchester WinLite group. The overall spread is the top number. The lower numerical value is the group without the, to me, obvious flyer(s). That will be the approach I give to the remaining photos as well.

I fired WINLITE 1oz slugs today. all five fired flawlessly. I also fired some Fed 1300fps, alleged reduced recoil, all five of those fired flawlessly. I'll hope to post pics of my groups later this week.

That's a good question!! DAMMIT, now I'll have to do that tryout too won't I!? I have some Federal 1200fps slugs I was gonna try tomorrow if weather holds out. I was actually gonna do some slug tryouts and post pics. FWIW, the *ONLY* ammo that has failed to cycle through my M4 is ESTATE 2.75" promotional target loads, and that was only within the first 100 rounds. Since then, I have only had ONE round of the same cause malfunction in the 1200 rounds or so fired through mine since May. I document pretty much every_single_shell that is fired through my gun! I'll do my best to respond quickly or create my own post w/ pics. Regards! 2-wheel

Brittany was cuter. You were scarier. But Benelli was the sexiest!! I'm getting old, gun porn is more appealing! I've shot at those targets too, you are SOOOOO right that he looks like Dog Bounty Hunter! Funny!!! Thanks for sharing!

Hoser, I had to laugh when I read this. Reminds me of a Tyrannosaurus Rex description. Ever see the animated movie "Meet the Robinson's" There's a funny reference there. Sorry, no offense meant, but it truly gave me a chuckle.

Hi Doc, I have two Rem 870's. One 12ga "tactical" or I think Remington called it their "Home Defense" model. My wife has a 870 youth in 20ga. YES, the Rem 870's do seem to have a bit more ability to develop, what appears to be super super super light corrosion/discoloration on the receivers. My wife's is more prone to it, but I think her hands/persperation are more acidic(no joke!) If one gets the "POLICE MAGNUM" those are parkarized and have a more durable finish. Then again, they're about $600-ish. I enjoyed my 870 a bunch. . . . 'til I got my Ben M4! Since then, I've been toying (i.e. waiting for an offer) on selling my 870. Both 870's have been very reliable, as it *NO MALFUNCTIONS* They handle well, pretty easy to disassemble/clean/etc. I do not have personal experience with the Novas. I remember reading of people on here that had some Novas ejecting shells from the bottom vs. feeding. BUT, I don't know if that was 20ga specific, all models of Nova or what. Best of luck! 2-wheel. p.s. BTW. . . I'm FRIGGIN' LOVING my 625 Citori! Been getting my best scores in skeet and trap yet!! has about a 55/45 pattern to it @ 30-ish yards.

SuperDak - -- DOH!!!!!!!!! Holy crap, I need to get out the abacus next time I do that. Thank you for the correction. Tactical1 - I didn't choose the Carlson's with much of a scientific approach. I wanted a breecher choke, Carlson's was in-stock @ Cabela's when I went to the store, I bought it. If it weren't for cost, I'd love to do a breecher-choke comparison as well. Buy one of each, then run the shot/buckshot/slugs through them!!! Basically, I just love experimenting. A) Gets me out of house, away from wife. B) go back to "A" C) Shootin' stuff is fun. 2-wheel

fit4life, Welcome to the forum. For target shooting, and just getting pellets downrange, you'll do fine with promotional loads from Wal-Mart, Dick's, etc. ~avg price, $22-$25/100 shells. If you're in police training, I would STRONGLY recommend you purchase some "dummy" rounds as well. I would also STRONGLY urge you to purchase obvious dummy rounds, so that they're bright orange/yellow, etc. Then you can practice malfunction reactions. What do I mean you ask? Well, ammunition is pretty reliable, but in the event you have a "click" vs the expected bang, don't sit around and hope it'll fire, get used to rack-it and shoot again. Also practice reload drills. load ONE shell, fire, reload, fire.... etc. Best of luck, and try out different ammos to see what works best for you. Once you hit the street... BE SAFE!!!! 2-wheel

Cody, I understand where you're coming from. Fortunately, *MOST* of us will never have to make that ultimate choice. In Law Enforcement, hundreds of hours are spent honing skills on weaponry, take downs, decentralizing combative suspects, etc. Many make their way through their career needing nothing more than persuasive attitude, strong demeanor and some clever wit. That *IS* a very succesful career. Certainly, L.E. has a much higher probability of encountering armed subjects. But, one of my favorite quotes is, "When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away." It's better to be prepared and have thought it through prior to any instances and "oh-crap" situations. Here is a benign example. You are going to interview for your dream job or a **** of a promotion to a new company. Do you just go in cold, not studying the company, not reviewing your resume, not making notes about your highlights, strengths and weak points? OR . . . do you study up, review, prepare and talk in front of family or a mirror? I hope you do the latter of the two. Preparation is preparation, doesn't matter the venue. I applaud those that give thought previously than those that react foolishly. Respectfully, 2-wheel

To answer your question, in short. I'll choose my Glock .45 ACP. WHY? I can operate it 1-handed and use the other hand for the phone, holding back my kids, illumination AWAY FROM MY BODY (FBI hold), cuffing/securing bad guy(s), etc. I also get many more reps in with my HG than I do the 12ga. Do I dislike the option of my Benelli M4 being a HD tool? NOPE! But I have collateral damage possibilities in my setting (kids/wife) so I need to be accountable for my shot placement. I have patterned my M4 (look for my post) and know that certain loads can hold approx. 3" groups. But 3" vs. .45" is too great a difference for me to take the chance. Unless you live in a mansion, any encounter in your home will be 20-ish feet at the most. Muzzle flash/recoil recovery will be greater with the mighty 12ga(a .72 caliber by the way) than with a handgun. I personally know of people that have died from ONE .22LR to the gut, nearly instantly. I also know of people that have been shot by .40 S&W 4-5 times that have lived. Ya know what it comes down to? SHOT PLACEMENT!! I would rather be shot in the shoulder with a .44 mag than center-mass with a .380ACP! Sure, a hit in the shoulder with the shotty on your perp will slow them down, but they'll keep going. One has to either take out the wheels(pelvic area) and/or take out the computer(upper spine/brain.) As for "searching the house" option, my thought, is I'll stay put if all my loved ones are in my room (i.e. - BUNKER) If bad guy comes to me, in my room displaying the threat, then I will defend accordingly. There is a reason Tactical Teams work in numbers to do a warrant; Firepower/Manpower/divide-n-conquer. You would be ONE person against an unknown number!! Short of being the greatest Ninja warrior and/or having an M60 or a SAW, stay put, behind cover. Property can be replaced!!! Another option if one really likes the long-gun but has apartment setting and/or collateral damage is an AR in 5.56 with soft points! Soft point 5.56 is stopped with relative ease in midst of drywall and 2X4 or ever 2X6 in some newer construction for outer walls. Anyway, my advice to anyone is this. Train like you'll fight so you'll fight like you've trained! Shot placement! KNOW how your guns works, and how it works when it DOESN'T work! ANYONE can shoot a gun, but not everyone can fix a gun that doesn't shoot, ESPECIALLY under stress!! May you choose wisely! 2-wheel

My wife's 870 youth pink has a Choate +3 on it. Came with a spring, and it functions flawlessly. Had it on for last year or so. She shoots it monthly(more often than she.....) oh, nevermind!

I had good groups with slugs in my M4 using the factory MODIFIED choke. I used 50yds for my zero.

GLAD you are on your way to recovery!!! Take care of yourself first!! NOBODY worth their weight in gold can fault you for that. Happy Returns Kip!! 2-wheel

VINNY, What I am using is a Glock armorer's tool(any 3/32" punch) to begin drifting the pin out. If you're going to use a hammer/mallet(*NOT* necessary, use a rubber one!!!!) I just push down on the pin, maybe a 45-degree angle of the punch tip to the pin, it just seems to work for me, and get the trigger group pin started. Once it's about 1/8" out, then I push the pin straight down, tapping it with my palm is all the preassure I need. The trigger-group pin is *NOT* directional, but usually for consistency I just push all pins OUT L-R and push them IN R-L. That's just a me thing. I hope this helps! 2-wheel

Hookster, I work p/t at a gun store where we have a range also. Our used guns are available for rent as well. A customer traded in the USP Expert and I was able to put it through its' paces over a couple nights. Total ~ 300rds. I like the looks, I like the feel. I personally don't care for their mag-release nor the trigger reset. I myself also don't care for the safety/decocking lever. But that's ME. What do I not like about the safety? I'll give an example.... let us say you are used to carrying a 1911 cocked-n-locked for CCW. Now you get the USP but decide you like it DA for first shot. As a matter of habit, you draw and get all flubbed up trying to turn the safety "off" you may loose your shot opportunity in those precious seconds. All you would've had to do was draw-fire. I KNOW I KNOW. . . . training with it and re-training motor memory is what it would take and I trust you have the fortitude to practice before you carry Hookster. So, as far as firing the gun I seem to recall it having a high-ish CG(Center of Gravity) and felt wippy. A big deal? No, because I think Springfield XD (NOT the XDm) has a high CG too, but I enjoy shooting them nonetheless as I did the USP Expert. I personally am a 1911 and Glock fan. Are they the best? NOPE! Will they put a hole where I need it to when I ask it? YEP!! Will other guns put holes where you ask them too, like the USP you like? YOU BETCHA!!! Let us know if you get a fun new toy!

Some of you were right on par. I had to find another box to give the p/n, so apologies for delay. Ammo is 12LEOOBK - Nickel Plated, 9-pellet, 1150fps "Low Recoil" They cycle FLAWLESSLY. . . . in my particular M4. Your own testing and evaluation is recommended if this is the round you choose for HD purposes. Regards! 2-wheel

personal experience? - no! do fellow 3-gunners I shoot with have them? - yes. do they like the products? - yes. more specifically Nordic mag tubes they are happy with on M2.

GOD BLESS YA for being able to do so!!! Do your part for me would ya please.

I think you've found your answer. However, you could always get the Brownells one you mentioned, try it for a couple days, don't like it, send it back. I do *NOT* have any experience with the SRM products. . . sorry! Here is a link to the SRM product line though in case you didn't have any more info. http://www.surecycle.com/store/pc/home.asp

TOTALLY a preference thing!! There is a recent thread on here about how to take off the factory mag tube. You might be well to read that just to have an idea if you go full length tube. Cody mentioned liking the look of the two-pieces. Aesthetics are very personal, and I can't fault Cody for liking it that way. From a mechanical perspective, I like the least amount of parts on a device possible. I put the Titanium 1-piece on there, and LOVE IT!!!! does that make me more right? NOPE... just what I like! But. .. if you plan on trying to seek 922r compliance because you're installing lots of whiz-bang-tricky-dicky-shoot-fast-gadgets, thennnnnnnnnnn you may want that 1-piece mag tube that has "MADE IN USA" stamped onto it. Best of luck.

I had one guy tell me at a gun store for which I moonlight that he was a "Tactical-American." I thought. . . WTF?? NOT a cop, NOT any special forces whiz-bang. heck, not even a good shooter. As for the "toys-race"..... golly. I remember in my youth having a '68 Chevelle that I had done a fair amount of engine work on. It was fast, but I knew it wasn't the fastest. Other guys out there(some gals) claimed to have the fastest. BUT...all that does is have the next person with more money, more access to parts, more initiative make the faster car(at least for the next weekend or two.) $60k car? For me.... not a good deal. $45k for an F250 diesel, that's more my thought of money spent and take teh $15k saved and buy a motorbike. Then again, some people think motorbikes are suicide machines and wouldn't take it if it were given to them. I thought the same w/ my M4. Is a shotgun worth $1500??? heck yeah, and I've spent about another $600 on it thus far. To my wife..... well, she doesn't know about the $600 extra. Anyway, a free bump for the post and an entertaining read that'll surely get under some people's skin.