johnnywitt

A shotgun with slugs is essentially a musket except for the limited stability of the so called rifling on the slug. Try some different chokes. Usually a mod. is a good start for slugs. Try a Federal TruBall slug, they are in a league of their own. Try different brands of slugs and different weights and with different chokes. Second question is... why do you want to shoot slugs and turn your shotgun into a crappy rifle. Buy a FAL, or an M1A, or even a poodle shooter. They will fire a single pojectile much better and with a whole lot more penetration and accuracy. People use slugs when they can't have a rifle, or carbine, or all they have is a shotgun. If you need to shoot something beyond about 75yds, you need a rifle/carbine. 75yrds or less and you can pop it with buckshot if you have the right choke/load (none of that low recoil stuff). You need a 2.75" mag with an IM choke and a buffered load with plated shot. A 3" mag has a lower velocity because it has the same amount of powder, but a bigger payload. My .02.

If I shoot a shotgun like a carbine, then an optic would help with speed. If I shoot a shotgun like a shotgun is supposed to be shot, then I'm not even looking at the gun. I'm looking at the target with both eyes open (yes, I know you can do this with a good optic like the Aimpoint or EOTech, but its not as fast). A shotgun is shot different than ANY other firearm. It is an instinctive weapon.The stock IS the optic. A pistol, carbine or rifle needs sights and with a good optic they are pretty fast. I know the USMC puts EOTech's and other junk on their M4's. USMC comes from a rifle mentality and culture. I can see putting a light on your shotgun, but not an optic. As far as skeet not being realistic for combat as it pertains to a shotgun, I guess shooting at motionless targets or friggen pop-up targets is better and more realistic. If I can kill a duck going by at 60mph instinctively, then how hard do you think it will be to shoot a bad guy in the head who pops up or is running. Even at 80 yards, I guarantee you I can put some lead in them. 100% guarantee. On the other hand, I grew up in Texas with a shotgun in my hand from the age of four. In Texas, bird season starts on Sep. 1 and last till the end of Feb. with liberal limits on dove, ducks, geese, quail, cranes, pheasants, and prarie chickens (especially in the 70's). My point is that you get pretty good with a shotgun if you shoot one all the time and you understand that a shotgun is not shot like a carbine or rifle. I knows guys that are deadly with a shotgun that can't shoot a rifle worth a damn. They are two different animals.

d, you Sir, are the Man! Ok d, so when I get ready to do this. I'm gonna need some advice. I'm wondering if I will absolutely have to cut the recoil spring down (I'm thinking, stiffer spring= more positive feeding). I know the shells would probably be a hard to load though. Also, I need to know exactly how long to make the magazine tube including threads to make sure I get the full 4 rd.(2.75" ammo) capacity. Also exactly how long to make the barrel and any other tips that you would have done different were you to do this project again. I think I'll have Briley do the work so I can have the barrel choked either with screw in (maybe a breacher choke tube, or fixed IC). I like a little choke in my shotguns although you don't really need it with the new Fed. Flight Control Wad ammo. Who knows how long that that ammo might be available though (I'm not talking about Obama, just that ammo comes and goes). One other thing, do you see any issues with not having the barrel collar ring on the barrel. Even SBS or AOW have the barrel ring and I'm wondering if this puts undue stress on your weapon.

I love Eotech's on a carbine. I also like the Micro Aimpoint, but for me, the Eotech is a faster aquisition sight because of the 65 moa ring.

Well d, next question, who do I get to do the job that won't screw it up (I'm thinking Briley)??? Are you able to get 4 2 3/4" shells in the mag plus the carrier load? How is the muzzle blast? Would you do it again or would you stick with the 14" configuration so as to be able to go immediately back to the std. M4 with 18" bbl. I'm thinking of finding a used 11707 and doing the Form 1 in the 12" or just buying the factory entry model in 14" so I don't have to mark the bbl. or receiver. If I do your Israeli 12" config., I think I'll just mark the barrel. I imagine that that gun is pretty handy around a vehicle.

I've been trying to pull up the pictures of the Israeli SF short barreled M4. The one with the bbl shortened to about 12". Can anybody pull this up? I want to try and get one made on a Form 1 if I can find another M4 11707 for a good price.

No optics are not always a plus. On a shotgun they are not a plus FOR ALL APPLICATIONS. On a Rifle/Carbine or a Subgun, I totally agree. On a shotgun, I can shoot against myself both with an optic and without. I will be faster and put more lead on target without an optic. Again, go shoot skeet with an optic and see how good you do and how fast you are. Some would say that skeet is not a good indicator of whether or not an optic is effective on a shotgun. Your shooting at fast moving targets at relatively close range. If you can do this well, then shooting a moving adversary should be relatively easy. This is taking into account the fear factor, which your gonna have either with or without an optic. People that try and shoot a shotgun like a carbine are going to get killed if they run up against an expert shotgunner (unless they just get lucky). It's a free country though, so you certainly have a right to your opinion and I respect that.

Clean out the recoil tube. Take your stock off first. Then, spray the recoil tube out with Gun Scrubber till it comes out clean in color, then relube with any CLP. About a 2 second burst down the Recoil Tube. Sometimes the new Benellis have the factory preservative in the recoil tubes and it gets sticky. You can feel your bolt slowing down and then you start to get jams like you describe. You can have you gun spotlessly clean and lubed, but if the recoil tube is dirty a Benelli will turn into a Jammomatic. Easy fix though. Use Militec-1, and some TW-25b, or Slide Glide on your bolt and the rails too. Not much, just the thinnest film, so you don't attrack too much dirt. I usually clean the recoil tube on a Benelli every 750-1000k rounds, or like I said, when new. YMMV.

Remember a couple of things. First, a SBE has a REALLY LONG receiver. So a SBE with a 24" barrel is going to be as long a sighting plane and as long, or slightly longer in OAL as a 28" barrel Over/under. Don't believe it? Put them side by side and see. Secondly, a shotgun with modern smokeless powder developes all of its velocity in more, or less the first 14" of barrel length, so anything more is just for sighting plane and balance/swing, so the gun doesn't feel pokey or stubby and you don't stop your swing of moving targets. Not a factor for turkey hunting. A gun that a good turkey gun is not going to be the ideal wing shooting piece, however a 24" SBE would be an excellent comprimise.

Like the man said, Federal 00, or 000 with the flight control wad (FC wad acts as a choke, so you can use a CYL. choke and still shoot really tight patterns). I like a regular stock on a shotgun and no optics except the ghost rings. I can shoot for speed and just look at the target and ignore the sights, or I can use the sights with both eyes open to shoot far away, or stationary targets- best of both worlds. You've picked the right gun for urban, or wooded survival/combat. I also hunt non migratory game with my M4's as well. You could even make a plug, or buy one from Benelli to use it for migratory birds if you just had to. The pistol grip does work well for turkey or deer hunting while hunting from a stationary/sitting position. A Burris Fastfire sight would be good for this application as well. Once you try a Fastfire, or a Dr. Optic, you won't jack around with any other red dot sights. They are inexpensive, rugged, small and super lightweight. I've been using them on SMG for awhile and they hold up. The Burris has a 4moa dot. The Docters are either a 3.5, or 7moa dot. I use the 7moa dot on a subgun, but it's too big for anything but quick combat style shooting. The 4moa would be better for shooting a turkey in the head.

It can but will suffer as far as capacity with a shorter barrel, Yeah, both eyes are open while shooting with an optic as opposed to just using the Ghost rings with both eyes open as well. If its close and they are poppin up out of thick urban areas/jungle types. You don't need that crap on your shottie. MOst people will be way faster using their M4 Benelli shooting instinctive style. Then you have the ghost rings on there for you static shots.

If you want to use optics and/or single projectiles your better off with a carbine. A shotgun works best with an instinctive style of shooting with both eyes open. A shotgun's strength is the ability to hit a moving target out to 50-60 yards.It cracks me up when I see people try and turn a shotgun into an CQB style carbine with all the M4 Carbine style crap hanging off of it. All you've done is made a shotgun into a poor carbine choice and killed the ability to engage a moving target with lightening speed. I have shot shotguns all my life. A shotgun is a completely different animal than a Carbine, rifle, or a SMG (although a SMG is the closest thing to shotgun IMO). I have everything from SMG to carbines and rifles, but nothing is faster and can put more lead on a target out to 50-60 yards than my M4 Benelli with a standard stock. I love a pistol grip on a carbine or rifle, or a subgun. It's just not as fast on a shotgun, or as easy to hit a moving target. If anybody doubts what I say, go to a skeet, trap, or better yet, a sporting clays range, with your pistol grip stock and your optic and try to hit some clays with it. If you can hit a moving clay with your optic better than without, or with your pistol grip over a standard stock, I'll eat my words. I figure if I can hit a clay moving 25-40 mph, or even faster, I can sure as **** bust somebody in the head who popping up, or running. I'm also pretty good with a SMG, but only after 1000's and 1000's of rounds. The shotguns only real limitation are slow reloads, capacity,lack of real penetration, range and OAL. Still, for the avg. person a shotgun still rules with a good buckshot load and the ability to select the choke that's right for the distance your going to be engaging targets. Shotguns didn't catch on in the past with the military because the shotgun shells were made of waxed paper and swelled in combat cond. They also used to use a full brass shell to prevent swelling, but the end of the shell where the shot came out was covered in a wad with a wax seal and wasn't the most reliable thing going. Still in close combat in WWI the Germans feared the "Trench Broom" more than anything else because it was so damn devastating at close quarters. Now, we have shells that are waterproof and don't swell up and get stuck in the chamber with their base ripped off. You also now have semi auto shotguns that are as reliable as a carbine or a rifle. The only exeption to putting optics and a pistol grip on a shotgun is on a Turkey only, or a dedicated slug gun in the states where this is the only legal way to hunt deer.

Most Turkey chokes will be extended type chokes and they WILL stick out past the muzzle. That makes them easy to tighten and to install/remove. That's why you want a black one, so it doesn't reflect and scare the Turkey-plus it will match you gun. Normally, I wouldn't use an extended choke in an M4, but for a Turkey choke you want a long choke so the shot doesn't get deformed as it gets constricted down the choke. Turkey chokes are super tight and you don't want shot deformation to degrade your pattern.

Guys, just my personal opinion, but you don't really need optics on your shotgun. They will slow you down (on a shotgun) On an M4 you've already got the excellent ghost rings for stationary targets. For moving targets you definitely don't want optics. Take your M4 to a skeet or trap range and try and hit a moving clay with an EOTech, LOL. As far as red dots, if you must, the Burris Fastfire is real hard to beat and weighs less than a couple ounces. It can take a beating, like 500g. I shoot them all the time on my UZI's. As good as a Doctor Optic, for less than half the price. The only drawback is you can get the Doctor with the 7moa dot vs. the 4moa dot on the Fastfire. I like the EOtech's, but I just don't think they're right on a shotgun. Plenty of folks will probably disagree. YMMV.

I like Briley chokes just because that's what I've always used. You want to get a black choke though and not a shiny one. A tukey choke is just an X-full constriction extended choke is all.

A Mod. Or a IC will probably work better. The slugs have so called rifling on the outside of the slug itself and it needs to get squeezed slightly to impart a spin on the slug. They make rifled choke tubes as well. The best slugs seem to be the Federal TruBall slugs. Shooting slugs through a shotgun kinda defeats the whole purpose of a shotgun though IMO. Get some Federal 00 buck with the flightcontrol wad and you'll have yourself an effective weapon out to 50 yards or so. Any farther and you would be better served with a 7.62X51/.308 rifle or carbine.

Get a Briley Jess Mfg. Extended Black (you don't want shiney or flashy) Turkey Choke and your set like a Mo-Fo. You can kill em dead out to 50-60 yards, although 60 is kinda pushin' it a little. But if you pattern your gun and happen to find a particularly tight and well patterning load, its do-able. A Burris Fastfire Red Dot will be perfect on top your pic rail (just order the one w/ the pic rail base and not the Weaver Base.

Dude, just get some cheap Wallace World promo loads with a 1 1/8 oz. 2 3/4 or3 dram loads and fire away. There is no need to shoot magnums and destroy your wallet AND your shoulder in the process. My M4's will both shoot 1oz./3 dr. loads all day long. One gun will even shoot the 7/8 or24gr. (with 3dr of powder). I've had a lot of Benellis-bought my first one in 94'. I've have both 12 and 20's Montes, M1's and SBE's and I have never had any break- in issues. I think what happens is that people will take a brand new gun out all gunked up with sticky factory lube and try to shoot it without a proper precleaning/lubrication. What they find is that they have a gun that hangs up on them. They then blame the gun/manufacturer. Another thing people will do is had cycle the action about 300 times- this does work to smooth things out IMO. Enjoy your new weapon because its the sh*t.

A Benelli M4 makes about as perfect a Turkey Gun as you could possibly imagine. First of all, a shotgun developes all of it's velocity with modern ammo in 18" of barrel. Second, length of barrel is no factor in the pattern thrown by a shotgun. A turkey choke screwed into a M4 should pattern with a turkey choke screwed into any other length/brand of shotgun. Now, go out there and kill some damn gobblers.

Thanks Guys. What is the model # on this gun? I used to know, but forgot. Is it the 11717?

The Beretta 391 youth 20 ga. is your gun. Either that or the 20 ga Montefeltro youth. The Benelli is going to be way easier to clean (and keep that way), but the 391 is going to have less felt recoil, especially with the gel pads that beretta sells for this gun. They come in different thicknesses to get the right length of pull for your girl.

JUst a heads up for the Federal TruBall slugs. Once you try their slugs and buckshot with the Flightcontrol wad, you won't go back.

Anybody know if Benelli is still making the factory M4 entry gun? I don't want to have to engrave my receiver and do a form 1. I want to buy a factory entry gun on a form 4.

2000 maybe, but 2500? You could almost by a SWD Mac-11 full auto for that kinda money. Shiite!

A 28' barrel O/U is SHORTER than a 26" barrel M2 or a 24" barrel SBE II because of the length of the receivers on the autoloaders is so long. That being said go swing em all and find what YOU feel most comfortable with. It's like a woman, some like them with more equipment on top and some care about a better "lower".