Unobtanium

I am looking to interrupt the CNS or cause a 20% blood volumn loss the fastest way I can. That obviously means birdshot and other rounds that won't reach major organs are out. I feel that #1 buck is the smallest one should go due to the possibility of heavy clothing, ect. ect.

If you did that to me and my eyes/corotid arteries escaped damage, I would tear you a new one. Number 8 shot at 90 feet is NOT going to incapacitate me. It is going to make me VERY angry though, and after you exhaust your magazine, it is going to take me VERY little time to cover those 90 feet. Birdshot just WON'T put a person down. Anyone who thinks it will, I pray they never try it. The likely result will be complete shock when their assailant goes into a killing frenzy. Before they break out of this "OMG I emplied the tube at him and hes still coming at me!" paralysis, it will be too late. Here is what happens when you shoot someone with birdshot. King, 42, was shot two or three times from a distance by birdshot fired from a shotgun late Wednesday. He then bicycled about 11/2 miles back to his home in neighboring Rialto and called police. King was hit in the face, arms, back and torso, police said. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/nov/30/rodney-king-struck-by-birdshot/ All six victims, between the ages of 15 and 17, were being treated at Shands Jacksonville hospital with non-life-threatening injuries, said Ken Jefferson, a spokesman for the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office. The first shooting occurred about 2:30 p.m. when a car pulled up outside a house where four men were sitting on the porch. A single shot from a shotgun came from a vehicle and all the victims were peppered with bird shot, said Sheriff John Rutherford http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-05-01-florida-multiple-shooting_N.htm Oh yeah, here is your "30 yard shot". Just as Dick Cheney, he knows how ineffective the stuff is first-hand. A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report said Whittington was retrieving a downed bird and stepped out of the hunting line he was sharing with Cheney. "Another covey was flushed and Cheney swung on a bird and fired, striking Whittington in the face, neck and chest at approximately 30 yards," the report said. A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report said Whittington was retrieving a downed bird and stepped out of the hunting line he was sharing with Cheney. So...if you want to go ahead and use birdshot, be my guest, but again...I pray you never have to use it, because if you do, and your assailant is armed, "outlook not so good".

Lol, you haven't seen very many OIS reports have you? I still remember one where an officer shot some kid point blank in the chest cavity with OO Buck. Kid ran 45 yards. Coroner said the heart/lungs "were shredded". Kid was drug-free, just being stupid and pointed a weapon (don't remember if it was real or a look-alike) at the cop in his cruiser. The human body is so much tougher than you give it credit for. So much more.

I would rather be alive to smell/see it though.

You have to press the little tab by the trigger guard to get a round to the top of the carrier and THEN rack the slide. Sorry I don't know the name of the tab.

Buy the M1 Super 90 spring for "military/LE" from Brownells. That is what I am about to do. My M4 spring works well except on 3" OO buckshot and the like, where the kick and mass of the shell in the mag-tube keep it from kicking the shell out fast/hard enough to get it on top of the carrier in time to lift it before the bolt slams home. Also, click on the "ALT" button when you find the spring, it will show you a 40" WOLF spring.

I will say one thing. Every cammo benelli I have seen is dinged up. Right off the rack. It is just the nature of the finish I think. That is why MY M4 is matt-black.

At 25 yards with my M4 and cheap winchester Power Point slugs I can shoot clover-leafs at 25 yards. At 50 yards I can keep them all in an 8" circle. GOod enough for me. Another vote for the M4. Even if you DON'T go M4, the Benelli shotgun with a smooth bore is going to be good with slugs compared to other brands due to the smaller bore diameter benelli uses. Using a Federal Tru slug will do wonders. I say stay smoothbore and forget the rifled barrel. Buckshot does POOR in a rifled barrel, slugs do well in smoothbore. No-brainer.

User error is my bet. I hate to sound like I am going on the offensive here, but it seems the most likely guess. If it is not user error, then something does seem amiss.

I hope you never have to shoot anyone with that.

Maybe they didn't get much on the tube with you guys, but with mine it took constant heat and tq and was pretty hard to turn even after I "broke the seal". After about 2 full turns, it began to get easier. I cleaned the threads and re-applied locktite. I used blue.

I am going to look into the M1 S90 spring from E-guns. It is meant for a factory 5+1 rifle and has a different part number. WE will see if it works better. My FTE's were a LOT better with the stock spring/follower. Only when I was shooting some hot 3" stuff did it occur. I think the action was moving too fast for the mag spring to keep up then.

The M4 is a heavy/solid weapon. If you plan on doing transition drills and running/moving fast, your manhood will thank you for NOT choosing a single-point. Other than that, make one out of duct-tape if it moves you to do so.

Okay...I called Benelli today. After being thrown around on hold and waiting 15 minutes (I felt bad for the operator, she sounded like this was a college job for her and I could all but feel her cringe when I said "Hi, you put me on hold and I waited 10 minutes and the system directed me back to you". Completely understandable, but I work with people all the time and always have, so I empathized...ANYWAYS>..) Benelli finally got to me on the phone. I was informed that there is ONE! spring for the M4. It's part number is:70053 But wait... I have seen part number 70052 bandied about on this forum as well! Is benelli misleading me? Well, I asked the nice lady to punch in 70052. Turns out this is the part number for the mag tube itself. SOCOMguy is correct. There is only one factory spring for the Benelli M4. It is meant to go with the factory 5 OR 7-shot tube. I am going to go and test things out with the Benelli follower and stock spring, as it is what SHOULD be in there according to Benelli. (Also, I find it quite telling that it has MORE tension on the last round than does the SRM M4+2 spring they sell with their kit. All evidence points to the rep I spoke to at Benelli being correct). Also, if you look at the "extended spring" on the e-guns site that is recommended with their extended tube ( TUBE: http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=981490&chrSuperSKU=&MC= SPRING: http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?chrProductSKU=981390&MC= ), its Benelli part number: 60479 (acertained by a call to E-guns). According to Benelli (and E-guns when you click on this part number), this item fits: M1/M3 Super 90 and is a factory type spring. NOT extended capacity (which Benelli only offers if you get a +4 or larger extension, and not at all for the M4 model). I have thus spoken with 2 Benelli Reps and both of them have told me 70053 is the ONLY spring spec'ed by Benelli for the M4. Reguardless of the mag tube. The fact that I have not found any other spring online made by Benelli for the M4 confirms this. There you have it, 1 hour of my day spend fiddling with mag-springs and data to put this to bed.

I pulled out all the SRM stuff. The SRM spring had about 1/2# less tension on the last round than did the stocker. I also put the stock follower back in. I am going shooting later today, we will see. I expect it to be flawless though.

Suprise, the stock 11707 spring has 1/2# more tension than the SRM 33" 2-shot extension spring. THis was measured like so: Remove the mag-spring seal and insert a 12ga 2-3/4 shell into the end opposite the mag follower. I then pressed this end to my bathroom scale, letting the spring press the shell into the scale. The stock spring had 1/2# more pressure at 3 to 3.5# vs. 2.5-3# for the SRM. I re-installed the factory spring.

Looks like I am not the only one, was your FTF the same as I described?

Well, I have the SRM follower and M4 2 round extension 33" spring and a Numrich tube. During part of my shooting session today the shell failed to eject from the mag-tube all the way onto the follower. The action jammed with the bolt all the way back as though it were empty. The jam could be simulated (if you want to know what I mean) by loading 1 round in your tube, and pressing the carrier a LITTLE BIT and then pressing the shell release. This would effect an identical jam to what I had. Observations: SRM follower does not protrude as far into the reciever as the M4 stock one. This may cause the shell to be not getting kicked out of the tube as far. I could get the same jams while just cycling it in my room. The jamming went away as sudden as it began. It seemed more prominant with 3" shells than the 2-3/4". I am replacing my SRM follower with the stock one. Could the spring be too weak? I doubt it, it is a new +2 SRM spring... Ideas/Thoughts? I am thinking SRM follower right now... (happens only on the last round)

My shotgun is by my bed. I don't need to be fumbling for the wrench at 3am half asleep. As to the other poster who said "that is all you need, it's a shotgun". Well...yes and no. I CLEAN my weapons. That means, I remove all fouling that I reasonably can (i.e., I don't take JB paste to the bore every time). Point being, why have all that lead in your bore? All it does is grab the shot wad/work into the gas ports/provide a place for powder fouling (and thereby moisture) to reside (more important in non-Cr Lined bores). There are 2 schools of thought I guess, I am of the CLP AND SCRUB! school rather than the CLP and Snake! school.

I have now seen several posts where you say not to leave the choke-tube in the barrel ready to go. As long as you are using a quality lube and good PM to prevent rust, what is the issue with it?

Using a bore-snake is like taking your car through a $3 automatic touch-free car wash. Using a cleaning rod with a brush and then a patch/swab is like taking it to a hand-wash/wax detail shop. This is as good of an analogy as I can give you.

Or more than 4 hours of sleep and a full-time job and getting started in 1st level clinicals. Maybe that would improve my spelling

No, get a cleaning rod. You can "scrub" the bore with a copper brush to get all the lead (EEK CHROME IS FLAKING!) out of your bore after shooting unplated buckshot/slugs.

The results are well worth it!

I removed mine with a $22 heat-gun (750 and 1,000*F options) from Wal-Mart. I heated the reciever by holding the gun 2-3" from where the tube joined it (heat the reciever, not the tube). I heated it by moving the gun around, evenly heating around the area for a 3-5 minutes. THen I wrapped the reciever in a pair of boxers (what I had laying around on the floor) and used my knee to pin it to the seat of my computer desk chair and with my hands I turned the tube. IT moved VERY LITTLE, but at that point I knew I had won. I just kept heating and immediately turning until it stopped and then repeating until I got it. You don't need a vice or anything crazy, just some juevos and some patients. Above all, when working on firearms/cars/computers, PATIENTS!