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Impact Guns accepting backorders for M4 H20 12/2/2012


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Alright, about a month ago when I first began my search for an M4 H20, I found my self on Impact Gun's web site where they listed the gun, but it said something to the effect of "no longer accepting backorders."

 

Then, about a week ago, I checked it again, and this time they were happy to accept my $2k to put me on the "backorder" list.

 

Since then, I've read some consumer reviews of unhappy customers buying from Impactguns.com, who claim they are often unable to fulfill orders they take, and I'm wondering if this is one of those instances.

 

Anybody got any idea if Benelli plans to do another run, and fulfill new orders? Or is Impact up to something shady?

Edited by rawdeal
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I also placed an order with Impact for a Benelli M4 H2O last week and was a bit confused. A forum member mentioned that they are discountinued. :confused: I too do not want to wait 6 mths. to find out that the order cannot be fulfilled. I emailed Impact to confirm my order and all they confirmed was that the item was backordered, but they made no mention of production. I will try and clarify with them. Perhaps others backed out of orders that were place before the model was discontinued and we're taking their spot? I just need to have this gun.

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As a side, I have nothing but good things to say about Impact. They got me my Benelli M4 SBS 11722 for &1769 shipped although it took 15 months. That wasn't anything they did, it was simply how long it took them to get it from Beretta Defense. Thankfully, Beretta is out of the picture on the M4 NFA stuff and Impact seems to have the 11722 in stock on a regular basis.

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So I registered to give the e-mail I got from Benelli USA when I asked the H2O availability question back in mid august.

 

Thank you for contacting Benelli USA. Currently the H20 model is on an order freeze due to high volume back order. They removed it from the sight for this reason. More than likely its looking like the end of the year before they start taking orders again, but that is an estimate from the factory as it still uncertain at this time unfortunatly.

 

This is from direct customer service. Personally I put credibility way about any sales rep, because generally no sales rep has any incentive to be honest with you. What matters to them is making the sale this quarter. If telling you that something is no longer for sale when they can't place an order, instead makes you place an order for a product that they can book this qtr they'll do it every time. Sales people aren't there to help you, their job is to close sales....today....

 

But ultimately the proof is in the pudding, we'll see if they reopen sales. Now if someone has more direct information from benelli CS and not a rep more recently then that may be credible. Somehow I doubt impact would have magically reopened orders after all this time by accident.

 

While it's always possible the ATF could change it's mind that refinishing does not equal manufacturing...until they change the current ruling it's hard to believe that they will specifically exclude a firearm they have already permitted. I.e. per...

 

Although installing parts in or on firearms, and applying special coatings and treatments to firearms are manufacturing activities

 

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-10.htm

 

Benelli has found a valid exception, the ATF may not like it, but to stop it they would need to change the current ruling.

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So I registered to give the e-mail I got from Benelli USA when I asked the H2O availability question back in mid august.

 

This is from direct customer service. Personally I put credibility way about any sales rep, because generally no sales rep has any incentive to be honest with you. What matters to them is making the sale this quarter. If telling you that something is no longer for sale when they can't place an order, instead makes you place an order for a product that they can book this qtr they'll do it every time. Sales people aren't there to help you, their job is to close sales....today....

 

But ultimately the proof is in the pudding, we'll see if they reopen sales. Now if someone has more direct information from benelli CS and not a rep more recently then that may be credible. Somehow I doubt impact would have magically reopened orders after all this time by accident.

 

While it's always possible the ATF could change it's mind that refinishing does not equal manufacturing...until they change the current ruling it's hard to believe that they will specifically exclude a firearm they have already permitted. I.e. per...

 

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-10.htm

 

Benelli has found a valid exception, the ATF may not like it, but to stop it they would need to change the current ruling.

 

I hope for my sake you are right. I need this weapon!

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Benelli has found a valid exception, the ATF may not like it, but to stop it they would need to change the current ruling.

 

Which presents no problem whatsoever for them. They wrote the rulings and they can change them at will.

 

The Director of the ATF&E has only to issue his legal opinion on a particular ruling to change it as the Director's opinions carry the force of law. Amending a ruling is as simple as picking up a pen.

 

The only remedy for such action is for Congress to enact legislation specifically barring the ruling change or to successfully challenge the Director's opinion in Federal court.

 

Welcome to the world of Federal bureaucracy.

Edited by XTrooper
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Which presents no problem whatsoever for them. They wrote the rulings and they can change them at will.

 

The Director of the ATF&E has only to issue his legal opinion on a particular ruling to change it as the Director's opinions carry the force of law. Amending a ruling is as simple as picking up a pen.

 

The only remedy for such action is for Congress to enact legislation specifically barring the ruling change or to successfully challenge the Director's opinion in Federal court.

 

Welcome to the world of Federal bureaucracy.

 

You're absolutely correct that it can be very easy for the head of the ATF to change his ruling on this issue. However if the ATF changed the definition of manufacturing to exclude refinishing services, they would then also exclude themselves from revenue on that manufacturing process. The 11% excise tax is paid whenever you manufacture a firearm, if refinishing is no long manufacturing then that tax no longer needs to be paid if that's all that's done. I believe that tax was one of the reasons they included refinishing as manufacturing in the first place.

 

While the ATF could also make a separate ruling that the M4 refinishing wasn't manufacturing, it would open them up to lawsuits that all refinishing isn't manufacturing. While any ruling can be changed there appears to be significant tax revenue in the refinishing as manufacturing and the ATF is likely loath to give that up.

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  • 10 months later...

Well, I just picked up my Benelli M4 H20 from the local shop today after waiting since March 2012. It was a disappointment. It is nothing more than a standard M4 with a NP3 coating. They removed the collapsable stock and to make it worse, cut the mag tube down. Don't order one if they do start to sell them. $2200 for half the gun I originally ordered.

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WHO removed the stock and cut down the mag tube?

 

Probably Norbar. They do the NP3 coating. I was told by Benelli that they were still going to fill the back orders but may have to make changes to make the ATF happy. They also said that they would adjust the pricing if they had to eliminate items such as the stock and tube. The stock could be changed, and I'm sure that Norbar would NP3 a tube, and that could be added, but the cost of doing that should be the amount of the price reduction. I also still have one on order. Not sure if I want it or not. I did pick up a standard black M4..... It's fun to shoot skeet with. :D

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Actually I was just as my local benelli dealer and he said that is how they will get around the 922r. Pretty much by making them like a regular M4. He also said for the guys that got the original H2O (he sold two of them of the 108 or so that made it to market) to maintain their documentation that it is indeed an original H2O. That way law enforcement/ATF will know it's an original legal H2O not version 2.0 that will possibly come out. The reason being from what his sources say within benelli that they will have an H2O model like the current M4 coming out soon. But without the extended mag or collapsible stock. What a mess I can see it now if they mass release a new H2o that guys who have the original benelli might get harassed by LE at a range. There is big govt for you !

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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375210564

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375290083

 

Upon further examination, I started to see differences with the current edition versus the latter. The latter trigger guard is raw, the genuine 2012 H2o is plated in NP3

 

We can assume that the second auction (yes the one with the ridiculous BIN) has OTHER DISCREPANCIES, such as having the full magazine tube with an raw trigger housing; it just so happens it is for sale right now as we just revived this topic???! SEEMS VERY SUSPICIOUS TO ME, but what do i know....

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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375210564

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375290083

 

Upon further examination, I started to see differences with the current edition versus the latter. The latter trigger guard is raw, the genuine 2012 H2o is plated in NP3

 

We can assume that the second auction (yes the one with the ridiculous BIN) has OTHER DISCREPANCIES, such as having the full magazine tube with an raw trigger housing; it just so happens it is for sale right now as we just revived this topic???! SEEMS VERY SUSPICIOUS TO ME, but what do i know....

 

Original H2O triggerguard coating was hit or miss. I had one without coating and one with.

85w8.jpg

Edited by 12508
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Within a few weeks of each other.

The one with the coated triggerguard was purchased first.

I resold it because the NP3 coating was atrocious.

 

It would be interesting to see how many there are out there that have/don't have the coating on the triggerguard.

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