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New Product Announcement - Benelli M4 Mount from AVATactical.com - Discount Available

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Pack Rat -

 

Do you know the bezel diameter of the Elzetta Bravo? Their website does not have this information, that I could find.

 

Joel

 

Yes,Joel. it's 1.46".

Edited by Pack Rat

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Hi Pack Rat -

 

That certainly is too large of a bezel. The Fury at 1.37 is on the edge of touching the barrel and will under recoil. It can be shimmed away, as some have done but not part of the design.

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Hi Pack Rat -

 

That certainly is too large of a bezel. The Fury at 1.37 is on the edge of touching the barrel and will under recoil. It can be shimmed away, as some have done but not part of the design.

 

I see. Thanks, Joel .

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Joel,

 

Just out of curiosity, and you may have stated it earlier, but is there an established "air gap" for the bezel to barrel?

Curious to see if you have established the amount of movement the barrel and light will move under recoil.

 

thanks

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Joel,

 

Just out of curiosity, and you may have stated it earlier, but is there an established "air gap" for the bezel to barrel?

Curious to see if you have established the amount of movement the barrel and light will move under recoil.

 

thanks

 

That's a good question. I can estimate it. Let me see what numbers I can pull.

 

Here's what I know at the moment - 1.25 bezel diameter won't contact the barrel while 1.37 bezel will under recoil. So it's less than .06 Inch / 1.5 mm that we are talking about.

 

Joel @ AVA

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I spent some time with several Surefire lights this evening to try to get a feel for what the best lighting solution for the M4 would be when combined with the AVA Tactical mount. I drug out a slew of weapon lights to compare the beam quality and probably pissed off my neighbors;

 

Surefire Aviator -- 60 Lumen

Surefire LX2 -- 200 Lumen

Surefire X300 -- 115 Lumen

Surefire ED2 -- 150 Lumen

Surefire X400 -- 170 Lumen

Surefire X300 Ultra -- 500 Lumen

Surefire Scout M600C -- 200 Lumen

Surefire Scout M600U -- 500 Lumen

Surefire M3LT -- 800 Lumen

Surefire P2X Fury -- 500 Lumen

Surefire P3X Fury -- 1000 Lumen

 

*Note: For testing purposes, fresh batteries were installed in each light.

 

I recently inherited a P3X and P2X. So I figured I'd give them a try at mounting them to the M4. Obviously 500 or 1000 lumens sounds pretty awesome for a shotgun compared to where I was with my Surefire Scout M600C at 200 lumens. With the assistance of Joel, I mounted up the P3X Fury which is a 3 cell light. The bezel made contact with the barrel, but it fit fairly well. Barrel shadowing was pretty extreme; but the sight picture was unobstructed. First thing I noted was the weight of the P3X. It comes in at about 7.75 ounces. This is nearly double the weight of a Surefire Scout light. I figured I would live with it if the performance was superior.

 

One thing I noted on the P3X installation that I didn't like was the mounting made it impossible to unscrew the light from the tail cap assembly to swap batteries. So you'd have to take the torx bits out to loosen the light in order to change batteries. This is a fail if you're using the weapon for any kind of professional work.

 

Another thing I noted on the P3X was how fast the lumens started tapering off after several minutes of run time.

 

After screwing around with the setups for a few hours, I took the weapons outside to test the light throw. Even with brand new batteries, I could barely tell the P3X was any brighter than the P2X or the Surefire Scout M600U. It was pretty disappointing honestly. I expected double the output of the 500 lumen units. Given the difficulties in changing batteries on the P2X and P3X, additional weight and relatively poor performance; I have to go with the M600U as the weapon light of choice for the Benelli M4. Granted, you'll need to secure a different body such as the E1L Outdoorsman and a unshrouded tailcap button. So naturally this comes at a higher cost. A M600U is typically around 300 dollars. Sourcing the additional parts may add another 50 - 80 dollars. Add the cost of the mount itself, and you have a fairly expensive package.

 

Where as if you opt for a P2X, they retail for around 150 dollars. The P3X is about 250 dollars.

 

Comparing the Scout M600U to the older model M600C. The difference was what you would expect from jumping from 200 lumens to 500 lumens. I would estimate that it was roughly double the brightness.

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Is there enough room on the tailcap.... just to keep the tailcap under the mount so you just unscrew the whole light? I tried that with one. Forget which I did it though when experimenting.... just a thought..

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Not sure if it is the tension from the clamp squeezing the cap or if it is the sling mounted retention device Joel developed, but I could not unscrew the p3x light body from the tail cap. I had it the mount fully on the tail cap. The p2x and p3x do not unscrew from the head light the Scout lights do.

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Not sure if it is the tension from the clamp squeezing the cap or if it is the sling mounted retention device Joel developed, but I could not unscrew the p3x light body from the tail cap. I had it the mount fully on the tail cap. The p2x and p3x do not unscrew from the head light the Scout lights do.

 

I have the Px2 Fury Defender... and I change my batteries by unscrewing the head part of the light so that I don't have to remove the light from my AVA mount.

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SD - Great write up. Much appreciated.

 

Dsteagall - I took the head off the P2X I have for testing. I found an odd adhesive when I took it off, there is also a copper ring that fell out that looks like it is for contact purposes and a very loose rubber O-ring that I had to cajole repeatedly during the re-installation of the head to keep it in place.

 

 

Did you experience anything similar?

 

Joel @ AVA

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The sling mounted retention device is a simple ring that seats in place of the factory sling mount. It has a flared edge that contacts the light where the tail cap and body meet. This bracket prevents the light from sliding in or out of the ring mount. It's simple and effective. It's limited to functioning on only certain light designs.

 

I tried to unscrew the head of the p3x by hand, and it was a no-go. I didn't push it. I didn't bother with the P2X.

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That's correct, it was conceived by a member here. I modeled it using the model data I already have for the M4, the Mount and the Lights and just a few samples were cut to determine efficacy, etc. It's doubtful more will be made as there are some other ideas in the works to address light retention long term without the use of snap rings, shrink wrap, etc.

 

Joel @ AVA

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It's the tension. I tried it on another light and it must put too much pressure on the cap. You could loosen it up a tad and possibly keep the tension enough. I had to experiment with my Streamlight Polytac... But got it..

 

Not sure if it is the tension from the clamp squeezing the cap or if it is the sling mounted retention device Joel developed, but I could not unscrew the p3x light body from the tail cap. I had it the mount fully on the tail cap. The p2x and p3x do not unscrew from the head light the Scout lights do.

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...there are some other ideas in the works to address light retention long term without the use of snap rings, shrink wrap, etc.

 

Joel @ AVA

Joel,

 

Any update on ^this?

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Joel,

 

Any update on ^this?

 

Nothing for production quite yet. Likely to be some time before changes can be implemented on machine parts and tested. I promise updates will hit here first!

 

:)

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Nothing for production quite yet. Likely to be some time before changes can be implemented on machine parts and tested. I promise updates will hit here first!

 

:)

 

What about a kick starter type program? You tell us what the design is, give us renderings, give us a legit timeline, keep us updated. In return, we pay you material and actual cost for the first units produced, now, which will be shipped to us as soon as they roll off the assy. line.

 

Risk to us? We lose our money if it doesn't pan out.

Risk to you? Noone who knows wants to deal with you.

Benefits to us? Great product very soon vs. Waiting much longer, and at an at cost price.

Benefit to you? Effectively a 0 percent interest loan (which will be "paid back" in product that is guaranteed "sold".) and the ability to get started that much sooner.

 

I'm game to play...

Edited by Unobtanium

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What about a kick starter type program? You tell us what the design is, give us renderings, give us a legit timeline, keep us updated. In return, we pay you material and actual cost for the first units produced, now, which will be shipped to us as soon as they roll off the assy. line.

 

 

Timeline is the real question here. When I can dedicate the time to implementing changes and then putting them through a series of prototypes and testing before I can bring to production.

 

Since we don't have other manufacturers (that do this sort of thing full time) I decided to step up and implement the design myself when I was able to find the time. Took about a year or so to do the first time around.

 

Now, really it's going to come down to finding that time again. I've tinkered with the designs in CAD a tiny bit. But honestly I haven't gotten very far yet - and nowhere near where I need to be to be able to say I have a completed design and can get a physical item cut.

 

I wish I could put more time into this right away - the product means a lot to me, but it is likely going to be well into 2015 before I can get things really moving along. I have some lessons learned I can take advantage of to save time during manufacturing, but I have to get to the point I ready with final designs first.

 

I do appreciate the interest, I will update everyone here first as soon as I can.

 

Thank You

Joel @ AVA

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Timeline is the real question here. When I can dedicate the time to implementing changes and then putting them through a series of prototypes and testing before I can bring to production.

 

Since we don't have other manufacturers (that do this sort of thing full time) I decided to step up and implement the design myself when I was able to find the time. Took about a year or so to do the first time around.

 

Now, really it's going to come down to finding that time again. I've tinkered with the designs in CAD a tiny bit. But honestly I haven't gotten very far yet - and nowhere near where I need to be to be able to say I have a completed design and can get a physical item cut.

 

I wish I could put more time into this right away - the product means a lot to me, but it is likely going to be well into 2015 before I can get things really moving along. I have some lessons learned I can take advantage of to save time during manufacturing, but I have to get to the point I ready with final designs first.

 

I do appreciate the interest, I will update everyone here first as soon as I can.

 

Thank You

Joel @ AVA

 

It's really shameful that pleasing the members of this forum takes a back seat to your personal finances and own life and family, but I suppose I'll try to understand.

 

Seriously, though, when you're ready, kickstart program! It will put capital in your pockets and GUARANTEE sold product. With a bank loan, there is interest and the uncertainty of repayment from sales. This way, you are guaranteed the "sales to repay", and the loan has no interest rate. IO Covers did this with their T1 cover, and as long as you are 100% confident that you can delivery at the time you start taking people's money, it's a very solid move, IMO. Your posts and previous products have been well-written/crafted, and people know the quality of your character and machinework. They will go for it I believe.

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It's really shameful that pleasing the members of this forum takes a back seat to your personal finances and own life and family, but I suppose I'll try to understand.

 

Seriously, though, when you're ready, kickstart program! It will put capital in your pockets and GUARANTEE sold product. With a bank loan, there is interest and the uncertainty of repayment from sales. This way, you are guaranteed the "sales to repay", and the loan has no interest rate. IO Covers did this with their T1 cover, and as long as you are 100% confident that you can delivery at the time you start taking people's money, it's a very solid move, IMO. Your posts and previous products have been well-written/crafted, and people know the quality of your character and machinework. They will go for it I believe.

 

;)

 

I appreciate the support.

 

I may look into such a funding program, I know I briefly looked at a few of them last time around - but bailed when I saw a few ammo mag projects get the boot from one of the fund websites due to anti-gun terms of service type nonsense.

 

Either way, I look forward to being able to deliver the next gen.

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;)

 

I appreciate the support.

 

I may look into such a funding program, I know I briefly looked at a few of them last time around - but bailed when I saw a few ammo mag projects get the boot from one of the fund websites due to anti-gun terms of service type nonsense.

 

Either way, I look forward to being able to deliver the next gen.

 

Do your own kickstarter.

 

Make a website to order from (done), and chronicle things so we can all see them.

 

At a certain point, create a cut-off. Pre-order for $XX.XX lower than MSRP, flipside is you wait until it's made (a defined period, and the progress blogged will serve as proof of concept.)

 

You get advanced capital.

 

We get an investment that is likely to pan out, and we get it sooner.

 

Basically, this is for all of the people who say "I'll pay not to wait in line"...except you're paying with time and a calculated risk vs. total outlay...which will actually be less.

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I really like the flashlight on the SBS what model flashlight is that, any mods ?

Also i was able to fit the Streamlight PT 1L flashlight .

 

 

Stangerdanger what model flash light is on the SBS ?

i know you recommended the L4 lumamax and the KE2-A head, do you actually own that setup ?

The reason I ask is the E2D Defender Ultra has a KE2D-A head on it and was wonder the difference from the two heads ?

 

if you do have the KE2-A head can you measure the diameter if you get a chance or anyone reading this who might have it please.

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