Unobtanium

Buy 2 boxes of 3" slugs. That should be enough to warrent a call to LaRue. Then again my mount was adjusted correctly, not torqued to **** and back.

Is...is that...a bushnell knock-off Iffytech?

Funny, because LaRue whined at me for putting it on the "non-spec" rail on the Benelli M4 when I shredded their mount. Oh well, they refunded me and so that's all that matters I guess. Maybe they think everyone uses low-brass birdshot

Me either. I am buying/looking for a 6P, 9P, or 6PD in LNIB condition for around $40-50 to use as a host for my new P60 module. It is going to be a monster The module arrives monday

I actually sold it already. Recieved payment today.

This also depends on the shooter. Where you may not have trouble, another person with a different stance and build would. A perfect example is my roommate. He could jam my M4 shooting birdshot because he limp-wristed it hardcore until I showed him how to lean into it. Whereas he was having trouble with 3 dram loads, I can do mag-dumps with 2.75 dram loads no sweat.

and I shot STS 1145fps target loads out of the box with my M4. The only failure I have had with it is when, being used to the SSA Geiselle trigger in my AR, is when did not fully release the trigger allowing it to reset while doing a mag-dump as fast as I could. Oh, I did get it to fail firing those loads holding it out 1-handed. And firing from the hip holding it loosely, but we all knew that would happen. I thought this thread was about better and best, not "utilitarian". If this thread was about bang for your buck, yeah, a $500 used but not abused M1 takes the win, no doubt. The one thing I will say is that the M1/2 system fouls less, but the M4 is about the cleanest gas-system I have ever seen. VERY clean!

Very awesome. If I recieve my tube by the end of Saturday I will be able to do some buckshot tests for pattern that I have had in mind for some time now! I just ordered some Federal Flight Control buckshot to be tested. It will arrive tomorrow or thursday. I have tried Hornady TAP and it performed horridly. I hope this federal stuff lives up to it's hype!

Correct, yes, I am remiss. I was in a hurry when I typed that. I would like to change "G3" to AK-47. Thanks for pointing that out!

Think about the physics for a minute here. In an M16 with a piston system, or in an M14, or in a G3, or in... These all use single-port and single piston designes. Why? Well, rifle rounds generate on the order of 3-5 times the pressure of shotgun rounds. For a shotgun round to generate enough pressure to be reliable across the board, the port would have to be large. The size of TWO M4S90 ports, and having a port that big is just asking for wadding/whatnot to be introduced to it. Ergo, they made that 1 big port, into two smaller ports. Also, they need the BCG to be impacted in the center...since shotguns have a high bore-axis in relation to reciever, it couldn't go on top. Since the mag-tube is on the bottom, it couldn't go there. Ergo, they went to the side. Being as 1 piston impacting would cause premature wear as the BCG was slewed sideways, they needed 2 pistons to equalize the load somewhat. And there you have it. As to why Cody6.0 bought an M2 and wasted his money when he could have been happier with his Nova...who knows. I think that logic is along the same as the reason he chose the M2 over the M4.

No, that is a place for the roll-pin that holds the bolt-release/shell-stop in place to come out when those of us who mod our Benelli's choose to do so

Hrmmm... Okay, this made no sense to me. Using a heat gun to loosen lok-tite on a tube is not heating the **** out of it. Lets look at this logically. The factory mag tube is a piece of crap that usually even can be observed to have minor dents in it from the factory. It's a bastardized component that Benelli kicked out as an afterthought. It also was NOT welded in, nor was Lok-tite red used. Benelli intended this part to be removable, i.e. not permanent. I am doing nothing more than a person who installs a Vararam intake on their C6 'vette. I am removing a restrictive, poorly made part, and replacing it with a better one. Benelli DOES have parts available to do better--but you won't be getting them in the US of A without some serious bribery or theivery. Kip has a superior part that you CAN get, and easily replace. How is heating with a heat-gun and twisting with your hands more violent than a 1oz slug battering a choke-tube while the hot gasses slam 2 steel rods into the BC which scrapes against the aluminum of the rails ripping the anodizing off? I am just unscrewing a tube and applying a little heat. Do you honestly think that a weapon that made it through Aberdeen Proving Grounds and is used without issue by MARINES (who are, by nature, capable of breaking ANYTHING!) is so pathetically weak that you can compromise it with a $15 heat-gun, your bare hands, and common sense?

Who brought money into this and who started calling people cheap? (not I! I am poor as ****, college student ) Also, 2.75 dram stuff is usually more expensive as it is STS target loads and the like, whereas the 3+ dram is the bargain-box dove shot and whatnot. At least at my wal-marts/Bass-Pro's. We shoot low-dram (3-3.25 dram) ammo sometimes for purpose (me, using STS target loads when I want to test-to-failure, and see how little it takes to get a cycle.) and some of us do it because in this day in age, it might be all that wal-mart has for blasting with. All this aside, the only thing that kept you from getting an M4 was not being able to have the OEM tube? I think Kip's tube is far superior, as are SOCOMguy's. Did you purchase before either of these two were making their tubes?

I highly doubt the Vinci will replace the other ID systems for at least a while. The system used in the Vinci is the only one in Benelli's line-up. I am sure they want to see how it fares before doing anything rash.

I found a spec stating 3180# for the Z, but you are correct, it is heavier than I thought (still very light for it's size). I guess if you view more reliable cycling with a larger variety of loads, under a wider range of conditions, as well as offering more furniture options (col. stock) nothing, then you are correct. Your argument is similar to the guy who has a civic with a turbo that can hang with your C6. Yeah, his car will pull the same skid-pad numbers, and hang at the drag strip. Point remains...'vette>civic (except in build-quality, *hurls*). Much the same as M4>M2. The M4 will cycle 2.75 dram loads all day long, 3" slugs on demand without punishing you, and put a light and optic on it and you are still G2G. The M1/2? Buckshot or hi-brass loads/slugs only. Sorry, no accessories allowed. A 1-trick pony, kindof like the civic with the big turbo and suspension. Not nearly as fun to drive.

The M4S90 operates exactly like the HK416. It is not gas "assist". It is piston operated. The gas hits the ports, makes the piston(s) move, hits the carrier, cycles the weapon. Again, just like an M16 w/piston conversion (except with the M16, since it was designed as DGI, the piston is longer.) It doesn't even have the ID spring in it like the M1/M2.

Why would it kick less? It weighs almost 1.5# more It is gas operated. There is nothing about inertia with the M4. The whole action is cycled by those pistons. Just like an HK416 or M14 or any other piston operated weapon. The operation is not similar to the M1/M2 which are completely different except: the recoil spring is in the recoil tube, and the bolt-head rotates. Those are the only 2 operational similarities I can see.

www.tinypic.com I wanna see!

No, but you CAN bend the rules pretty handily! Like you said, lengthen the time of transfer. Perception is reality. I'll take it!

A Benelli shotgun is reliable and all of the parts actually fit togather properly. Let's not compare it to GM cars. But, if we must... Z06 gives you dry-sump oil system, C6 is wet-sump. Z06 gives you less weight by around 100#. Z06 gives up 1 or 2 MPG IIRC. The Z06 runs high 11's all day, the C6 low 12's to mid 12's. Z06 will out-brake and out-handle the C6 In much the same way, The M4 is more reliable than the M1/2 with ligher loads as a rule The M4 has a metal trigger guard The M4 can be had with a collapsible stock which makes running optics SOoooo much nicer The M4 can accept accessories without choking. The M4 doesn't kick nearly as hard (follow-ups are easier, even if recoil doesnt upset you) Insiginificant you say? Not much difference in the C6 w/Z51 and the Z06 much like there isn't much need for a metal trigger guard on a shotgun? Well, look at it this way. The C6 took over where the C5 Z06 left off, it doesn't feel as sporty as a C5Z, but it's "later and greater"...much like the M4 tougher and cooler than the M2/M1. You chose to spend the coin and get a C6, even though the benefits over the C5Z are mostly...but not all... cosmetic. In much the same way, I chose to get an M4 over an M2, even though the benefits are mostly...but not all... cosmetic. There is still a performance gap that cannot be denied. Yes there are mechanical differences. Yes you will notice them.

Most FUD's who would buy a weapon like the one being marketed are not so savvy. By "most", I mean a market share large enough that the money spent producing the comparison will be more than payed back by the buyers it influences. "Hey Jed, that thar new pump kicks less than an auto shotgun! Billy gots him a brownin' Gold an' it don't kick for beans! I'm gettin' that new pump!!!"

My M4 rides beside me in the passenger side when I go out to the range/whatever.

ar15.com works great for me

Interesting, I guess if you have a $3,000 collection of shotguns in the car going to a 3-gun match or something and some dick busts your window out at a gas-station and ganks your stuff, you will at least cause him some frustration!

I am not sure. I like Glocks, but they are more function than form for me. I have owned a $1200 sig (unreliable), a $2500 custom 1911 (again, unreliable), shot numerous H&K USP's (reliable, pleasing ergo's, accurate), an XD.40 (okay, but nothing I can't live without), and so on. What appeals to me the most is the USPF in .40. What I will most likely end up with is a G19 and a CC permit in a few months. I enjoy the controlability of the glock platform and my friend's G32 was an excellent pistol. Everything I pointed it at, got messed up. Loved it! The 357 SIG round is a unique round, reguardless of what the +P+ 9mm fans have to say about it. Different sound/feel to it. I liked it, but 9mm is more practical.