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CarrierComp Charging Handle Petion

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Clone the oem shank out of 4140, heat treat it and phosphate it, but right after the shank leaves the carrier, profile it to have and retain a polymer handle moulded to it. Use whatever polymer is good for the process and durable and pick a good shape and dimension. The weight will be minimal, mass production possible, price low, durability and structural integrity should be great.

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Clone the oem shank out of 4140, heat treat it and phosphate it, but right after the shank leaves the carrier, profile it to have and retain a polymer handle moulded to it. Use whatever polymer is good for the process and durable and pick a good shape and dimension. The weight will be minimal, mass production possible, price low, durability and structural integrity should be great.

 

Only one problem there Bud...

 

Doesn't satisfy that Titanium Addiction!

 

:D

 

N.B. Nice idea for sure though and cheap to do.

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A polymer knob would be a good idea. Polymer is lighter than even aluminum and tends to be more forgiving when it comes to scratches or causing damage to other equipment.

 

Coming up with the profile of the knob so everyone was happy would be the hardest part. I'd look to 3 gunners to see what works the fastest without tearing up their hands.

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A polymer knob would be a good idea. Polymer is lighter than even aluminum and tends to be more forgiving when it comes to scratches or causing damage to other equipment.

 

Coming up with the profile of the knob so everyone was happy would be the hardest part. I'd look to 3 gunners to see what works the fastest without tearing up their hands.

 

Exactly. It's not sexy as Ti, but it IS MORE functional. It is also lighter, and the off-axis weight of the CH during cycling will be even less. Beretta's 1301 Tactical Charging handle is a very good profile. Many 3-gunners use a similar profile to it from aftermarket companies, as well, such as Briley, etc.

 

It also eliminates the issues of machining and sourcing quality grade 5 or 7 Ti, lowers cost, streamlines production, and so forth. It's honestly the technically best solution that only neglects "But it's not Ti" type mentalities.

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Exactly. It's not sexy as Ti, but it IS MORE functional. It is also lighter, and the off-axis weight of the CH during cycling will be even less. Beretta's 1301 Tactical Charging handle is a very good profile. Many 3-gunners use a similar profile to it from aftermarket companies, as well, such as Briley, etc.

 

It also eliminates the issues of machining and sourcing quality grade 5 or 7 Ti, lowers cost, streamlines production, and so forth. It's honestly the technically best solution that only neglects "But it's not Ti" type mentalities.

 

Great idea, one could of course take an OEM charging handle and cast a blob of JB Weld on the end then turn on a lathe for any shape desired, just saying, pretty easy prototype to test out various shapes.

 

Rasyad

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Ok, I'm ready.

 

Went to the machine shop and prowled around. This task will be breeze compared to the standard contracts they fill.

 

A couple questions, possibly for Joel. As a private party, do you see any legal issues making a small run of these for resale in the community. Not starting a business or making a living. Understandably the shop worries about any liability that may be incurred as a "firearm" part.

 

Material will likely be steel, kept as light of weight as possible. Titanium offers no real advantages at all in this situation. And plastic seems even worse. The shaft and 3 sided nub will be identical to the original

Are we in for the original knob design, or modified (how so)? Checkering, or press knurling. Does anyone have a CAD/STL/P of the knob or is quick doing it?

 

Also I would appreciate the OD/ID or any major measurements of that knob. To the nearest 0.001 is probably good enough.

 

Again, this project is a GO from the machinist.

Edited by Toaster

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Ok, I'm ready.

 

Went to the machine shop and prowled around. This task will be breeze compared to the standard contracts they fill.

 

A couple questions, possibly for Joel. As a private party, do you see any legal issues making a small run of these for resale in the community. Not starting a business or making a living. Understandably the shop worries about any liability that may be incurred as a "firearm" part.

 

Material will likely be steel, kept as light of weight as possible. Titanium offers no real advantages at all in this situation. And seems even worse. The shaft and 3 sided nub will be identical to the original

Are we in for the original knob design, or modified (how so)? Checkering, or press knurling. Does anyone have a CAD/STL/P of the knob or is quick doing it?

 

Also I would appreciate the OD/ID or any major measurements of that knob. To the nearest 0.001 is probably good enough.

 

Again, this project is a GO from the machinist.

 

Hi Toaster,

Great work here. Have you discussed with your machinist anything about the current offerings and where they fail?

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It's just a part. Don't ship outside the US due to ITAR.

 

One could cad up the Knob easily. Ideally said knob would be close to what you see on the CC knobs, the OEM one is too slim, that's what you would want to overcome while keeping weight down. What material is being proposed for the knob?

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Im not a metallurgist, I know a lot more about the "Organics". I do not know all the options, nor the forces or exact stresses involved. We were planning on the 41 series for simplicity, strength and abundance. The machinist said Ti would be purely novelty in this application and only drive prices up. I want this as cheap as possible for us all. I want the finish to match the original or be sold "raw", or even NP3+ coated. Also I will either need an example, someone to scan it, get me dimensions, or otherwise reverse engineer from search results, which I would like to avoid.

 

I know the weights are around here as well, but I never saved the data,.. I believe light as possible will be the goal..

 

This is a community driven project, with no profits in mind at all.

 

The shortcomings are very simple: rotation-limited base, receiver clearance, low (same) weight, retention, and handle geometry(CC).

 

Spherical symmetry in the knob design, or at least 3 way symmetry should probably limit options. I dont want it excessively long, as it is the widest part of the gun and more leverage is only a bad thing.

 

Im looking into improving the quick disconnect feature as noted above, making it more secure, possibly with a deeper retaining groove, or steeper ramps. Or even new (tighter) spring clip.

 

Really as simple as that.. just a "part" no affiliations? That makes things very simple.

Edited by Toaster

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Glock has cease and decists sent to some aftermarket companies for calling parts for a glock, "glock parts" for example, "glock 19 trigger" needed to be labeled "trigger for glock 19". Companies are very protective like that. Aside from that you should be fine.

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Great comments,

 

I was thinking to match the H2O.. I want the same, preferably higher standards. I agree on all points for the nitride, it might even match the black decently. Maybe 10% may go to Robar for those who already have coated M4s

 

I may do the initial few sales, but plan on leaving bulk to the big boys like Ava or SD. A permanent resident/sales, with more tact than myself! Ha!

 

Then you can also grab them with other products/services. It supports the community.

 

Some ideas I have been playing with is a hollow core to save weight. I have been looking at the Briley bolt handle, which looks like the TTI one - crap checkering + 3 sided detent. I haven't heard much about them and fail to see why many of these are two piece.? Does it fit ok?

 

On second thought, if anyone has an extra handle that they dont like, or is bad, post about it. I'll do my best to get that area fixed.

Edited by Toaster

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Great comments,

 

I was thinking to match the H2O.. I want the same, preferably higher standards. I agree on all points for the nitride, it might even match the black decently. Maybe 10% may go to Robar for those who already have coated M4s

 

I may do the initial few sales, but plan on leaving bulk to the big boys like Ava or SD. A permanent resident/sales, with more tact than myself! Ha!

 

Then you can also grab them with other products/services. It supports the community.

 

Some ideas I have been playing with is a hollow core to save weight. I have been looking at the Briley bolt handle, which looks like the TTI one - crap checkering + 3 sided detent. I haven't heard much about them and fail to see why many of these are two piece.? Does it fit ok?

 

On second thought, if anyone has an extra handle that they dont like, or is bad, post about it. I'll do my best to get that area fixed.

 

The main issue is off-axis weight. Keep it less than OEM, and you're G2G. Don't forget though that the bolt-handle does endure a lot of stress. The GG&G larger ones were actually bending back in the day.

 

Part of the issue with the bolt-handle is that when you enlarge the tactile portion's diameter, and enhance its gripping surface, you allow more rotational force to be transmitted as the weapon is charged. This rotational force causes the CH to want to turn, and it can lead to losing the CH in the dirt/forever. I had an original Carrier Comp Black CH that would do this. Fit was flawless, it was just physics. If you got aggressive with it, it could and would happen. I personally just run the OEM CH. If Kip were to do another run, I'd buy it "because", but that's my .02 on it.

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Searches:

 

"From my measurements, here is the production weight for the units;

Benelli OEM: 12.5 Grams

carriercomp 1/2" Titanium: 9.6 Grams

Design Concepts: 8.5 Grams

Freedom Fighter Tactical 1/2" Titanium: 10 Grams

GG&G Steel 3/4": 24.5 Grams" - SD

https://forums.benelliusa.com/archive/index.php/t-32086.html

 

"We mimicked the factory (heat treated steel) tang for its advantages where extreme duty (yield strength before bending if dropped, etc) and abrasion resistance during and after utilization as a disassembly tool. Aspects not all users will ever need or require."

 

 

In spite of its "wonderful accolades", titanium can never rival steel along solid core yield strength (bending of tang), deflection failure marks, or abrasion resistance (durometer). Titanium rivals steel (impervious to hydrogen imbrittlement at elevated temps, strength to weight ratios, corrosion resistance, etc), but where brute strength across the board is concerned, appropriately rendered "tool-steels" will prevail. The down side is one's strength narrowly overshadows the other's weakness... but not always. Reciprocal mass is less suspect in gas operated platforms, yet has been demonstrated as "culpable" by the introduction of bolt knobs which impede cyclic velocity (heavy). Having observed this indicated lighter was "better". Hence solid Ti charging handle made sense. Unfortunately casualties crept in;

 

Bent knobs

Disfigured tangs

....BOTH maladies seldom if ever encountered with the heat treated OEM charging handles.

 

 

These charging handles will never ever separate or fail to operate as a homogeneous unit GUARANTEED. They are bonded with techniques and within parameters utilized by pioneers who preceded our "hybrid" approach. (Inductive/Thermal?)

Failure won't occur.

The mag tubes have been available in black since 2002.

The charging handles will be available in PVD coated "Tactical-Black" -Kip

https://forums.benelliusa.com/archive/index.php/t-25967.html

 

http://photos.carriercomp.com/GalleryThumbnails.aspx?gallery=322243&ci=42240

Edited by Toaster

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The mag tubes have been available in black since 2002.

The charging handles will be available in PVD coated "Tactical-Black" -Kip

 

Does that mean Carrier Comp is back in the charging handle business?

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I have a CC&G which seems fine. The point for me would be the Carrier Comp design, a heat treated steel shaft press fit / bonded to a knurled Ti cylinder. My 2 cents, Rasyad

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Yep, been looking at the design more, We have been toying with the idea of a "zig-zag" removal, as opposed to the standard rotate and pull. But is likely too complicated The problem with this is it no longer allows the knob to rotate fully, if that was ever a requirement. Other options include simply making the detent ramp stronger..or just leaving it alone.. Either way, this one from Taran Tactical (TTI) looks worse and worse the longer I think about it.... If they can sell this piece of ****,(And keep a decent reputation), I will have no problem..

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I wouldn't over think it or over design it. The CC one worked because it was simple, robust, and functional. Stick with that and they'll sell. If I wanted something over-designed and engineered I would have some other crap already. Stick to Occam's razor, and everyone should be pleased.

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You think you would, but they are all mostly crap! Haha if I have 1000 of these spit out the back of a swiss mill, you better bet I thought about it for a long time. As mentioned, with a larger radius, rotation leverage is increased, which is why I expected at least a "little" stiffer removal. The zig/zag removal track may be too complicated.. The whole 2-piece thing is kinda throwing us for a loop, trying to keep manufacturing simple/cheap.. Anyone know the alloy, or rough harness of the bolt/original shaft? Might be trying to go with a lightweight all steel unit to keep costs down, as opposed to a 2 piece, Ti unit.

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The name of the OP was for a Carriar Comp Charging handle.If it were me...I would be studying the Originals here, the orig OEM Benelli, and the Orig CC.A few companies have managed to make something sub standard, there have seemingly only been 2 successful handles made though, those being the OEM and the CC handle.If you can't figure out the CC one, I think you are wasting your timeHas anybody asked Kip if he would supply the details? He's basically out of this market for this product, maybe he won't care. Longshot I know...

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What is the complaint with the OEM handle? Frankly, every aftermarket one that I have seen with the tube handles on them look retarded. Sorry, they just look stupid, and the bigger diameter the worse they look. What's the point? The size of the OEM handle offers plenty of purchase.All it takes is one sheep to say baaah and the rest of the sheep follow, lol.The OEM handle stays put when you want it to and comes out when you want it to. When I see the amount of ridiculous and unnecessary bling people throw onto their weapons, I'd hate to see what their houses look like, lol! No taste!

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