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Everything posted by timb99

  1. Congratulations Zach I met your coach Shawn Dulohery (and many of your Lindenwood teammates) last week. Best of luck, and hope to see you in the Olympics in 2012!
  2. Two e-mails sent.


    Good luck,



  3. E-mail sent. good luck.



  4. True, but the 20 gauge 1187's are a lot lighter than the 12's and the youth model has a 21 inch barrel, which helps. For young kids just starting out, recoil is the biggest fun-killer. The 1187 is very soft on recoil, in part due to its gas operation, but also in part due to its weight. Plus, when you're first teaching them to shoot, its not like they're going to be carrying the gun around for a long time. Have them put it in the gun rack when their arms get tired. Small arms can't hold those guns for long periods of time, no matter how light the gun is. Really good article in Shotgun Sports magazine (April 2010 issue) about getting kids started.
  5. Nope. Takes way too much time, requires precision instrumentation that costs way too much money, and I have a day job. I'm just trying to insert some reality into this. Come on...do you guys believe the claims Vince the Shamwow guy makes on his infomercials? Of course not. The claims the choke tube guys make are of the same flavor. I've studied enough physics (and applied them over my 27 year career) to know BS when I hear it. And I know enough ballistics to understand what is, and is not likely or possible. Yes, with a high speed camera, you can test whether a wad separates faster with, or without ports. I'm betting it does separate faster with a ported choke tube, because the heat of combustion of the powder softens the wad so much, the plastic actually extrudes into the choke tube ports as it passes by them. That's a fact. But can you prove that it really improves patterns over the exact same tube without ports? You'd have to test a tube, then test it again after it has been ported. These guys just don't go to that trouble. You would think testing recoil would be pretty straightforward. The standard way is a ballistic pendulum, but that tests the ejecta after it leaves the muzzle, and doesn't test the recoil of the gun backwards to the shoulder. People smarter than me, with test apparatus I can't afford, have tried, unsuccsessfully, to test this and get precise, reliable results. Its not that easy. Which is why I contend the choke tube guys have never actually tested it. Just trying to get you guys to not blindly believe what the salesmen are telling you, because some of what they're telling you simply doesn't pass physics class.
  6. Now that's funny, right there. NOBODY, I repeat, nobody, is spending millions of dollars developing choke tubes. Nobody. Not Briley, not Carlson's, not Kicks, not Comp-n-Choke. There's no way they could be spending that kind of R&D money and also be staying in business making choke tubes. There's just not enough sales volume and profit margin on choke tubes to be spending millions on R&D. Not only that...they don't need to spend that R&D money. The people who make choke tubes are really, really good at machining steel parts to precise dimensions and tolerances, and programming CNC machines to mass produce these "parts." But they're machinists, not engineers. And they don't test their claims, because they don't have the scientific tools and instruments necessary to test them. These guys are really good machinists and salesmen. But if you ask them for a peer-reviewed scientific study of how they came to the conclusions that: 1. Ported choke tubes substantially reduce recoil. 2. Extended tubes with long parallel sections substantially improve patterns. 3. Ported choke tubes substantially reduce muzzle jump. 4. Ported choke tubes slow the wad down to separate the wad from the shot faster, which improves patterns. You'll either get an honest answer, "we didn't actually do any tests" or the dishonest answer "that's proprietary."
  7. Mike, I know trap shooters who swear by Comp-n-Choke brand, but its primarily because they pattern really nicely. Most admit they can't tell any difference in recoil, but others swear there's a difference. Like they say, YMMV.
  8. Mike, No, it was not my intent to imply that. I was just saying that hard, buffered shot is really important to good, tight turkey patterns. I guess my bottom line is, buy a choke tube, try several different brands of shells, even different sizes of shot, and see what works best in your gun. If you don't like your results, try a different choke tube, and repeat the testing with different shells. If you like ported tubes, great, but I am skeptical of their claims. Tim
  9. Great pics, truckcop. Is that Sarasota Gun Club?
  10. You can believe what you want. Companies that sell chokes want you to buy THEIR chokes. And they'll tell you whatever you want to hear to get you to buy THEIRS. If you believe a salesman would NEVER lie to you to get you to buy something, you can surely believe that a choke tube company would never lead you astray, right? I don't "buy" what salesmen tell me. I'm a registered professional engineer, and I'd rather let physics do the talking. Extended choke tubes pattern better because they have a longer parallel section? Really? Teague chokes have NO parallel section, only a taper, and there are people who won't use anything else. I have factory flush choke tubes with the same constriction as my Briley Spectrum extended tubes with long parallel sections, and the longer tubes do not pattern any better than the flush tubes. I use the longer tubes because they are easier to unthread. And that's it. If you do some of the calculations suggested by the recoil section of "Hatcher's Notebook," a well respected ballistics treatise, you will conclude that the exiting (and expanding) gases of 3-dram shotgun shells account for about four percent of their overall calculated recoil. That's the upper limit of what ports can do, and that's assuming that ALL the gases exit via the ports. They don't. Night shooting pictures indicate that a lot of gas is directed out the ports of a conventionally-ported gun and a lot goes right out the muzzle. That means that if you decided that ported chokes could reduce recoil by 2% it's impossible that you would be more than 100% wrong. If 2% or 4% is "greatly" reducing recoil, then I guess their claim is accurate. I'm pretty sure my shoulder couldn't tell the difference. Porting (or muzzle brakes) DO substantially reduce recoil on rifles because a much, much higher percentage of the overall calculated recoil is attributable to the powder as burned gases. Sometimes as much as 40% of the recoil of rifles is attributable to gases. The problem with these choke tube companies claims is they have no verifiable peer reviewed test data to support their claims. They're just that. Claims. What matters is what you see on the pattern board. The reason ported choke tubes CAN'T reduce muzzle jump, is because the ports are all around the circumference of the tube. For every jet pushing down there's another one pushing up, canceling it out. Ported BARRELS on the other hand, have the resultant jet from the ports directed up, which provides a downward force on the barrel, which CAN reduce muzzle jump. Wad rotation is another red herring. There are gun barrels that have straight rifling to reduce wad rotation. But its a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Based on testing done by a friend of mine, rifled shotgun barrels don't pattern any better than unrifled ones. I'm not saying your ported choke tube doesn't work well. I'm just saying that its unlikely that the ports are the reason it works well. And wads separate from the shot within a foot or two of the muzzle, and are then a non-factor. If your super duper ported choke tube patterns well, great. Its a good choke tube. Use it. But don't think for a minute it patterns better than other tubes BECAUSE it has ports and the other ones don't. Probably the biggest factor in good, tight patterns is good hard shot and buffering.
  11. Hey Zach, Thanks for the kind words. We really enjoy putting on the event, and if you guys have fun, that's our ultimate goal. Seems like everybody got a kick out of the new Argentina event. Hope you can make it to Powder Creek next March. Tim
  12. Two things a ported choke cannot do: 1. Reduce muzzle jump (unless all the ports are on the top, which they aren't, are they?) 2. Reduce calculated recoil by more than about 2%. What Novaking said is good advice.
  13. Here's a Kansas City Star article about an event I helped coordinate this past weekend: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/07/1796525/students-take-aim-in-annual-tourney.html Some pics: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/07/1796164/shootout-at-the-crossroads-collegiate.html (photographers evidently get a huge kick out of seeing spent hulls ejecting.)
  14. Live (Shawnee) and work (Overland Park) on the Kansas side of State Line.
  15. Briley makes good chokes. Ported chokes don't do what salesmen say they do (reduce recoil), but Briley chokes pattern well. Take it to the pattern board and see how it patterns.
  16. Never got, and still don't "get" the whole camo shotgun thing.
  17. timb99


    All guns behave differently. Even two samples of the same model. I'd say try them several different shell brands and use whichever one you feel works best in YOUR gun.
  18. Charles Daly is out of business. And their guns are not that great to start with. You'd be far better off buying an 870 or 1100/1187.
  19. 1187 Sportsman Youth. By far, the softest shooting gun of the bunch. And it can be turned into a full size model with a stock and a longer barrel. Or, you can probably sell it later for what you paid for it.
  20. "I also am not a big fan of the safety in front of the trigger - I do not find this ergonomic." Nor do I, but Winchester, among others, has been doing it this way for years. You'll get accustomed to it. Regarding the trigger guard hitting yoru middle finger, I have heard people having this problem before. I think its more of a problem of how this particular gun fits your hand/finger (or vice-versa) than it is a design flaw (which it isn't because most people don't have this problem.) I think someone (try Brownells) sells a padded "thing" you can put on your trigger guard that helps with this problem.
  21. I know that but with a ported you mite lose distance am I right or wroung? No Porting for a shotgun choke has little to no effect on anything, except noise. Porting can reduce recoil in rifles, but is limited to about 2% recoil reduction in shotguns. The only way to know is to get a choke and pattern your gun.
  22. timb99

    snap caps

    I asked my buddy to weigh in on this subject a while back. He has a Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering, specializing in machine design and strength of materials. Alas, I have only a Bachelors Degree in Mechanical Engineering, so obviously, he's smarter than me. His answer? It depends. It depends on the material and the level of stress seen in the sprung (cocked position) and the unsprung (hammer down) position. Metals used for springs DO INDEED take a set, that is, if kept in a stressed condition for long periods of time, the metal will actually "creep" (and yes, that really is an engineering term.) Which is why your hammer springs get shorter over time, because regardless of whether the hammer is cocked or uncocked, the hammer spring is under stress. Its just under higher stress when its cocked. However, cycles (each time you take a shot) will fatigue a spring as well. And in the case of someone who shoots 5,000 targets a year, spring fatigue due to cycles may indeed be the governing cause of spring weakening, and not creep due to storing it in a stressed position. So, for guns used occasionally, like hunting guns, snap caps may indeed extend the life of the hammer spring. On the other hand, for guns that are used regularly, like competitive trap guns, chances are that using a snap cap may be of limited benefit. Will a snap cap harm anything? Oh, probably not. Do you NEED them? Oh, probably not. I use my snap caps for practicing mounting my gun and improving my swing to the target in my basement. As with all things...your mileage may vary. Probably the right answer is, if you shoot A LOT with your guns, you should replace your hammer springs periodically. If you DO use snap caps before you store your guns, make doggone sure its really a snap cap and not a live round!
  23. Recommend you call Benelli customer service directly to answer this question.
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