Unobtanium Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) THAT I did notice. Hard = brittle, not so hard = tough, T3/T6, 6000 v 7000 series, umm, seems as though you already know more about it than most can comprehend.... and you thought I wasn't paying attention:) I would not accuse someone with such an eye for detail of "not paying attention". I am disproportionately excited about this rail though. I want it. I want it bolted to the top of my M4 with an LT mounted T1 cruising along atop it. However, patience is a virtue. I DID get the spring in the mail today. In the end, I am one who has to hold, touch, look at, and appraise something with my own senses before I can TRULY endorse it. When I say "This thing is good", I attatch my reputation to it as well. People associate it not only with who made it, but who introduced them to it. While I have always maintained that you are one of the most polite/best written/spoken manufacturers who has an online presense, it was not until today, at the recieving of the spring, that I truly appreciated the quality of what you are doing. Sure, I saw photo's, heard reviews, ect. But today when I took the spring out of the box and remembered all my dissapointment with: Surecycle, Wolf "generic" springs, Benelli M1S90 springs, ect. I could not help but smile with confidence as the time ticks down until I have my rail and Ti tube. I do not say this to imply that I doubted the quality of anything, but simply to say what everyone who has ever owned a fine automobile or sports car will tell you. Watching it, looking at it in pictures, seeing it on TV. Nothing compares to feeling the soft snick* of the shifter as you slam 3rd gear and listen to the cacophany of screaming exhaust yourself. And so it is with well-machined parts, although not quite as liberating. ETA: this hard/brittle stuff is why I have not condemned the KZ design for being softer than GG&G. I HIGHLY! doubt that the GG&G bent itself into two pieces. Perhapse it was heat-treated too aggressively and it snapped. The KZ bolt may not do this at a lower RC level. I do not know, but until you have a Bolt Charger out, I am running my stock one, being as noone will sell me their Design Concepts one. Edited May 1, 2009 by Unobtanium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drundel Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Duggan: Which is which on your pictures? I'd like one the size on left for my SBEs. When its cold and I'm wearing gloves, sometimes its hard to rack the gun and the geese have to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Anyone have experience with the KZ Charging Handle? The Day Design Concepts pulled the plug ( I called and left VM's with no Callback) I just ordered a KZ to have something bigger. Are they worse than GG&G? I ordered both of these parts 2 weeks ago and still nothing in the mail. I am praying Kip will add these to his inventory. I am a big fan of anything strong, light weight, and no F'in Corrosive baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Duggan: Which is which on your pictures? I'd like one the size on left for my SBEs. When its cold and I'm wearing gloves, sometimes its hard to rack the gun and the geese have to die. Design Concepts (best one) on left, stock one in center, crappy GG&G one on right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 ETA: this hard/brittle stuff is why I have not condemned the KZ design for being softer than GG&G. I HIGHLY! doubt that the GG&G bent itself into two pieces. Perhapse it was heat-treated too aggressively and it snapped. The KZ bolt may not do this at a lower RC level. I do not know, but until you have a Bolt Charger out, I am running my stock one, being as noone will sell me their Design Concepts one. It bent itself in a 10 degree or worse bend from being hit on the ground. I forget if I threw my m4 or if it fell off a table or what, but it somehow hit the ground hard and the weak charging handle got bent. What worse is that the design didn't have any non-rotational flat spots like the stock one, so it was free to spin off axis in your hand, consistently giving you the worst grip possible, as you would always end up with the bolt handle bent towards you, encouraging your hand to slip off the bolt handle. I managed to straighten it back out, but my faith in it is completely gone. This happened a few more times, not as bad as that first time, but after consistently having to fix a subpar product I got sick of it and bought the PMC/Design Concepts one, and it has been 110%. It is a much, much better product. If you want Kip, I will gladly send you my old GG&G handle, so you can test it or whatever so you can see exactly what your product should NOT end up being like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drundel Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Design Concepts (best one) on left, stock one in center, crappy GG&G one on right. Thanks. I do like the looks of the DC one. Anyone ever tried the Nordic one? http://buy.nordiccomp.com/product.aspx?pid=378 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Thanks. I do like the looks of the DC one. Anyone ever tried the Nordic one? http://buy.nordiccomp.com/product.aspx?pid=378 No, but from the looks of it there is no anti-rotational cuts, and as such I would not recommend it ... but honestly in that picture it's hard to tell, so I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Theirs is pretty much perfect. If you can somehow improve upon it ... more power to you. Ours is/was/ a clone of the one on the far left. Duggan thanks for offering to send the GG&G, I believe the deficiency to be the slender shank for sarters, not knowing their material selection. If DC (far left) fails to continue product availability don't fret too much. We will re-release ours later this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drundel Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 cleefurd: Do you know if yours will fit the SBE/M1 platform? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I use to live in Friendswood TX!! Small world. Lived on Windsong Lane back when it was still a dirt road (1978-1980) I have an M1 and I will need to check that. If it does it will list accordingly. My hunch is it won't fit the M1 when optimized for the M4 due to bolt carrier mortise that might prevent the larger tang from seating properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drundel Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I use to live in Friendswood TX!! Small world. Lived on Windsong Lane back when it was still a dirt road (1978-1980) I have an M1 and I will need to check that. If it does it will list accordingly. My hunch is it won't fit the M1 when optimized for the M4 due to bolt carrier mortise that might prevent the larger tang from seating properly. Wow, I can't imagine that part of town back then. What was 528 like then? Was Moore road even there? How about sun meadow? We moved there in '84 and it used to be nice country drive over to Alvin. Not any more. Idiots don't understand why it floods when they keep turning under fields for homes and churches. I think if you drove the area now you'd be shocked and if you ever drove over to 288 via 518, you'd probably get in a wreck gawking at all the new stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Sun Meadows was brand new and Chigger Creek got it's revenge TWICE in what was suppose to be a "100 year flood-plane".... good thing for my folks it was a lease property. The Sun Meadow's 7-11 convenience store was the only commerce for miles. 528 was a true FM road (farm market) and indicative of old Americana. I went to FBCS school on FM518 and back then it was safe to ride your bike to school (verrrry long bike ride though). My folks eventually bought a house in Ellis Landing (League City) by 1980 where we lived until enlisting in the Marine Corps in '83. Ellis Landing was BRAND new at the time, and was the only development beyond Newport subdivision at the time. I heard it is unrecognizable today. Little trees are big, and all the fields are as you said.... plowed under. Edited May 12, 2009 by cleefurd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm really glad I got my Design Concepts from Brownells back in December. I weighed the factory, GG&G and the Design Concepts on my Dillon electronic scale. Factory Charging Handle: 12 Grams roughly GG&G Charging Handle: 23 - 24 Grams Design Concepts Charging Handle: 8.5 Grams The GG&G is junk. It simply weighs too much and slows down the carrier to the point that you can cause jams. If you're firing low base rounds, it is easy to cause a failure where there is a live round in the chamber with the hammer down since the trigger disconnector is connected to the elevator. During the last 2 inches of carrier travel, the disconnector is disable, and the hammer will drop if you pull the trigger. With the Design Concepts, you're looking at a 50% weight reduction. Switching between the DC and the GG&G was like night and day. The slugish carrier disapeared and returned to being a blur. The DC is not as large as the GG&G knurled knob, but it is larger than the factory unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm really glad I got my Design Concepts from Brownells back in December. I weighed the factory, GG&G and the Design Concepts on my Dillon electronic scale. Factory Charging Handle: 12 Grams roughly GG&G Charging Handle: 23 - 24 Grams Design Concepts Charging Handle: 8.5 Grams The GG&G is junk. It simply weighs too much and slows down the carrier to the point that you can cause jams. If you're firing low base rounds, it is easy to cause a failure where there is a live round in the chamber with the hammer down since the trigger disconnector is connected to the elevator. During the last 2 inches of carrier travel, the disconnector is disable, and the hammer will drop if you pull the trigger. With the Design Concepts, you're looking at a 50% weight reduction. Switching between the DC and the GG&G was like night and day. The slugish carrier disapeared and returned to being a blur. The DC is not as large as the GG&G knurled knob, but it is larger than the factory unit. My GG&G never jammed on me, it just sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 http://www.davesmetalworks.com/ben.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHat Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Waiting for Kip to get his act together and field one done right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tactical1 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Yep! I'm in line as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I'm sure Kip's will have better machining than the Design Concepts. Th knurling on mine was poorly done. This can be attributed to having to work on Titanium -- not the easiest medium. Function is fine though. I'm curious to know if Kip is going to go lighter than stock, or aim for stock weight since that was what the Benelli was designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger 1/75 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 It's been over a year, and no one has mentioned anything about Kip's charging handles. Did I miss out out some limited distribution, or is everyone patiently waiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AggiePhil Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Kip recently posted an ETA of the first part of November. No word since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super33 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 It's been over a year, and no one has mentioned anything about Kip's charging handles. Did I miss out out some limited distribution, or is everyone patiently waiting? We're not supposed to tell you. LOVE THE HANDLE KIP!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4Fanatic Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Any updates yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cleefurd Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Yes the 44 solid titanium ones were moved a while ago. The revised ones had tooling and coater's delays, which led us to a new coatings firm in Michigan who will also be doing the work on our "F.I.S.T." (to debut Jan 1st) Meanwhile the current run of bolt knobs were set back to January release since they will be coated along-side the other samples previously mentioned at the Michigan plant. The bolt knobs are made by us (carriercomp) but outsourced for TiAln coating. BTW; Yes the revised bolt knob will have the A2 heat treated tang to withstand the Benelli designed intent to double as a gas piston disassembly tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flascot007 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Yes the 44 solid titanium ones were moved a while ago. The revised ones had tooling and coater's delays, which led us to a new coatings firm in Michigan who will also be doing the work on our "F.I.S.T." (to debut Jan 1st) Meanwhile the current run of bolt knobs were set back to January release since they will be coated along-side the other samples previously mentioned at the Michigan plant. The bolt knobs are made by us (carriercomp) but outsourced for TiAln coating. BTW; Yes the revised bolt knob will have the A2 heat treated tang to withstand the Benelli designed intent to double as a gas piston disassembly tool. Put me on the list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xamoel Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 The fist? Whats that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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